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Mods => Tracks => Topic started by: Asdrael on June 14, 2016, 09:19:08 PM

Title: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 14, 2016, 09:19:08 PM
And for my second track, we go back to Round 01 of the SX2016 series!



(And yes that's me scrubing the finish :D).

This is a replica of the track on racing night, which differs notably from the blueprint (one less table, rythm sections have jump sizes switched around). 1.1:1 scale again as it suits what I am trying to achieve with replica SX more.

Thanks to the feedback received after my first track (Rd02), a few changes have been made:
I was aiming at an easier to access but harder to master track than the first one. Overall, it has more spots where you can make the difference - and this time, the difference will be made on getting your lines and rythm down rather than trying to charge one single corner exit, as every obstacle is easily doable. Just find a way to make them flow together. It is much more technical than the first track as it requires a great jumping technique to do a full lap using the "real" lines (angled jumps, cutting on take-off, seat bouncing...). It is however much easier to cruise around at medium speed and feel satisfied. On a 250F, you need to push it hard to get good laps down. The 450F has more line choices and relies more on throttle control.

I tried invisible walls, but it just felt wrong. The duo-track solution is imo a good compromise. And I know the shape of the "gate table" is shitty to ride on, but look at the footage from the event, it was even worse ;)

Download link on MEGA.NZ (https://mega.nz/#!9EhUgIYR!mZircr1UiyqranN0lq-gs9df_uYrAgTA5WPvXDERZ-Y)
Feedback welcome, and enjoy!

Known issues:
- Shadows on toughblocks with collision enabled looks darker than without
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 14, 2016, 10:33:14 PM
Dude, I'm so excited to get home! Thank you so much for bringing SX, especially 2016 into mxb!!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 15, 2016, 12:26:56 AM
Finally got home to ride the track!


Very nice man, much better for both 250/450!!

Comment's are from 250f because I am sure the 450 makes quick work of anything.

The first set of whoops are very nice! The 2nd set are very hard to manage and make the triple a near miss (this may be due to low amount of time on track but drastic difference b/w the 2 set of whoops)   EDIT:: Nevermind.. it was me, the 2nd set of whoops are manageable!

I think its the 2nd right hand turn is maybe too steep? Very easy for the beta physics to wash or simply fall over.. hitting the 1st triple on the 2 rhythm sections is amazing because you really have to push it! but i think the turn I mention on the 1st section sometimes washes you out too easy.

Love the section (sand) after the finish!

question for my realism nerd mind..
-Is the roller/table at the starting line also suppose to be that short? I know its accurate style/type. (once again, great if it is)

MXB beta physics, question for all SX style tracks..
-Should whoops be scaled to match the current physics or just practice to master and hope the physics catch up?
EDIT:: I think this track has a good standard for sx whoops, especially the 1st section.. maybe tweak rnd02?


These tracks are great and I can't wait to see the quality increase as you go, great work! I have been wanting sx on mxb! Major props as you have already brought 2 sx rounds to us in little time!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Paradox28 on June 15, 2016, 05:27:30 AM
I haven't seen it mentioned so nice work on the replay cameras as well!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 15, 2016, 12:03:23 PM
Thanks for the feedback, glad you guys like it but find it hard. That was the point!

Any thought on the regular vs GRE versions? Are toughblocks 'fine'? I'm finding it more thrilling to ride with the collision, and I'm cleaner as well as I know I cannot charge and pray. If people agree on this, I will make the collidable blocks the standard and the only one registered online (no version registered online yet as I am waiting to see which one people prefer).

Quote from: BadStarComment's are from 250f because I am sure the 450 makes quick work of anything...
- Actually the 450f has higher requirement on throttle control and timing, which enables shorter lines in turns and tripling after doubling easily. I suspect the laptimes will be less consistent for the average rider, with hotlaps at best 1 or 2s faster.
- Not commenting yet on the whoops and turns, waiting on more feedback. I used a "trick" though, so let's see who picks it up :p
- The table on the gates is a mix between blueprint (short table, long landing) and the real one (long table and almost vertical landing). I made it as close as possible to the real one, while keeping it working with MXB current physics. It was made to be very precise imo: land as well as you can to go WFO as soon as possible. Watch the GoPro of the event and you'll see what I mean - they all soften the jump, often "casing" or landing almost flat after.
- As for the whoops, trying out different things. The real ones (3' high 8' spacing on average) don't work properly. This round has 2 different sets, and once again a trick was used. Waiting on more feedback before seeing how I can move on.

Quote from: geofanatecMan these tracks are hard!...
I find this one easier than Rd02 as the "intermediate level" rythm are more manageable, and -when you are used to it- it's easy to see you won't make the big line and slow down to take an easier approach without just crashing. It is however VERY setup reliant (the base setup on the YZ2250F is a good start for intermediate level, stiffen the fork as you go faster... and see what fits you), and the technique requirement is quite high for this one. As you could see, line and rythm are the keys there, which is what I wanted.

Quote from: Paradox28I haven't seen it mentioned so nice work on the replay cameras as well!
Yay someone noticed :p I love the Buggy sideline one, and the SkyCam was implemented to spectate online racing one the long draw distance is fixed in next beta.


Going to see if I can get a recording setup to post a lap today.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 15, 2016, 12:11:00 PM
I'd love to see a lap.. Also want to ride some more before giving proper feedback but I am struggling with the rhythm section. I find I can nail a double or triple landing in perfectly but the next jump throws my front end sky high no matter what :(.. I had 2 fantasy SX tracks working perfectly in beta 3 and find the front end bounce or rebound made them both unrideable..

Still, great job, love the whoops and forgot to comment on the replay cams last time, they're great and nice to see someone adding them!

Will ride some more and add more later!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 15, 2016, 12:21:45 PM
Quote from: TheFatController on June 15, 2016, 12:11:00 PM
I'd love to see a lap.. Also want to ride some more before giving proper feedback but I am struggling with the rhythm section. I find I can nail a double or triple landing in perfectly but the next jump throws my front end sky high no matter what :(.. I had 2 fantasy SX tracks working perfectly in beta 3 and find the front end bounce or rebound made them both unrideable..

Still, great job, love the whoops and forgot to comment on the replay cams last time, they're great and nice to see someone adding them!

Will ride some more and add more later!

Thanks :) Fiddle around with the setup. I rode it with 5 or 6 different bikes, and I find that each bike requires a slightly different setup. If you use the RMZ 1.2, the front end will skyrocket no matter what. I couldn't find a work around. Also, if you still get nose-high on every jump, you might be not landing flat enough / overjumping a bit / charge the rear too much. Keep at it, my current problem is overjumping so... to each his own :p
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: StoneRider on June 15, 2016, 02:05:34 PM
first of all i got to say that i take so much pleasure riding your sx track. i'm a true fan of supercross and this is so cool to have those two. i think you find the good setup for the whoops, triple kicker and common rythme jumps. But i that the reception of your triples have to be more high, as high as the kicker actually. i also think that your berms have to be higher too, and stiffer and i think they have to continue more on the track. you need to make them longer i don't know if you see what i mean... ^^ anyway, i ride with the 250rmz and i'm able to triple in easily but i just CAN'T triple the rest of the rythme. The second triple just don't jump for me. i tried many diffeent setup but... no way.

Here is my feedback thanks again dude keep it up !
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 15, 2016, 03:25:43 PM
Yea, I think the challenge is..sx replica's vs beta physics..

It needs a little tweaking toward physics and slightly away from replica. I agree that I can triple in and its so sweet, but I have to break and make the next double..no other option without major gamble on 250.

Everything is sooo close to being excellent, just needs some tweaking for the bikes handling.. the front end shooting to the sky is a real issue.. fixed by breaking and leaning forward, but that shouldn't be the only viable option every time.

Once again, super love these tracks

Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 15, 2016, 03:35:34 PM
Just to mention.. (please don't bash mxs, I like it also)

Mxb has something special that made me play it over mxs. The physics and engine, even though they need work, they stand out big time for me. Watch Youtube sx with mxs and see how FAST they ride..landing into ruts and shooting back into the rhythm..this is very unrealistic to me. Watch a replay of MXB on your tracks and its easy to see how much more realistic the pace is and that you actually have to encounter the berms/ruts, jumps with more precision and not so arcade like.

With that said, Mxb + SX scaled to fit the physics as it developes, is the leader in mx simulation at the moment. This is not a fan opinion but a matter of simple observation.

So I think it doesn't hurt to have a track slightly off scale to make up for physics.

So glad you guys are apart of this game and bringing great content and taking criticism constructively!

Random rant.. but just have major respect for everyone here, thanks for your work!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 15, 2016, 03:38:57 PM
Hoping to win the prize..

Is the trick you mention to your whoops the entry? Has a incline to help enter better?
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 15, 2016, 04:31:34 PM
Quote from: StoneRider on June 15, 2016, 02:05:34 PM
first of all i got to say that i take so much pleasure riding your sx track. i'm a true fan of supercross and this is so cool to have those two. i think you find the good setup for the whoops, triple kicker and common rythme jumps. But i that the reception of your triples have to be more high, as high as the kicker actually. i also think that your berms have to be higher too, and stiffer and i think they have to continue more on the track. you need to make them longer i don't know if you see what i mean... ^^ anyway, i ride with the 250rmz and i'm able to triple in easily but i just CAN'T triple the rest of the rythme. The second triple just don't jump for me. i tried many diffeent setup but... no way

Thanks for the feedback. I'm also having troubles with the RMZ, while I'm fine with the other bikes really. Regarding the triples, I'm going by DirtWurtx specifications - 6', 4.5', 3' with a 2:1 take off and 3:1 landing. So IRL, the landing is about 2 time smaller than the kicker, which is what there is in my tracks now (not counting Rd02 where I did a mistake in the heightmap and the landing is 2'). As for the berms, man, they are already higher, steeper and longer than what they have on the real tracks :p (this is to compensate the need to straighten the bike more, and controlling the throttle is more difficult in game as you can't "feel" it). I'll see what I can do next track.

Quote from: BadStarI can triple in and its so sweet, but I have to break and make the next double..no other option without major gamble on 250.
While I agree I can always do better on the faces / spacing and the physics can be improved, I can triple triple almost every lap on a 250F. I ave obviously a lot more laps in than you, but once you figure out how to keep your momentum in turns, you'll notice that the problem becomes overjumping and keeping the rythm more than making it. I have to absorb more some jumps now, and I'm trying to find the fastest compromise. Currently uploading a lap where I tried absorbing too much and ended up needing to (fail my) seat bounce to make it again for the second triple.

Quote from: BadStarIs the trick you mention to your whoops the entry? Has a incline to help enter better?
You'll figure it out if my video ever finishes uploading :p


Overall, the obstacles i'm making in SX are different from the ones we are used to in the MX tracks. They take a bit getting used to, don't charge in after 5 laps hoping to triple-triple, as I said, this track takes a long time to master. I'm not there yet and I probably have 100 laps in.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Wedgewood on June 15, 2016, 04:42:50 PM
Great job.  It's a fun track without being too difficult.  It should make for some real close racing.  Thanks for the upload.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 15, 2016, 05:47:20 PM
Your right, more time on track a definite requirement. I did triple triple a couple times but was a gamble with all the air breaking and leaning forward to stick the landing..made it a serious gamble.. but again, more time on track needed.

Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 15, 2016, 05:49:57 PM
Here we go: a lap on a YZ250F trying to NOT overjump everything. I was focusing on jumping "just the right distance" for every jump. You can clearly hear that I'm not full throttle approaching the rythm and still making the triple in easily enough. The corner entry, whoops speed and overall line choice was the safe one. A few seconds can be gained there for a fast hot lap. I can also improve the way I avoid taking too much air - I was too close to casing a few times for my taste (letting off the gas versus reducing speed and bouncing it). It doesn't feel close in first person tho when playing.

WARNING: THE FIRST MINUTE VOLUME IS LOW. This is because I was using the side cams. Do NOT turn the volume up for this. It starts with the Arena view, then PoV, then the side buggy cams. You will enjoy me casing a bit the second triple of the first long rythm because I let off the speed too much coming in, tried and failed a seat bounce to compensate. Still made it :p

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_dQkorpoZg

(First time using recording for this, I had to install OBS and the settings are suboptimal obviously).

Edit: f*ck me, there is a small audio delay starting at 2min or so. Approx 0.5s delay. Sorry.

Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: ZATOX02 [FR] on June 15, 2016, 10:15:33 PM
great video that can help me find the right rhythm.  :)
question : is it possible to use the Helmet camera in the game or only on replay ?
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 16, 2016, 12:27:11 AM
Quote from: ZATOX02 on June 15, 2016, 10:15:33 PM
great video that can help me find the right rhythm.  :)
question : is it possible to use the Helmet camera in the game or only on replay ?

Only on replay, It may be pretty hard to ride from the helmet cam..would be interesting to try for sure.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Braap570 on June 16, 2016, 12:44:30 AM
Nice vid dude! Can u upload your suspension settings and stuff?!  I ran completle Standard settings and have so much probs to geht a lap and omg your lap looks so smooth :D (pls dont tell me that you ride in standard settings haha
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 16, 2016, 12:51:06 AM
Braap, also consider adjusting your gearing. It really helps with sx.. 12/50 is a good start..depends but a good start
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 16, 2016, 01:01:53 AM
Quote from: Braap570 on June 16, 2016, 12:44:30 AM
Nice vid dude! Can u upload your suspension settings and stuff?!  I ran completle Standard settings and have so much probs to geht a lap and omg your lap looks so smooth :D (pls dont tell me that you ride in standard settings haha

Standard YZ250F suspension settings, 13/52 drive train on this. Find what works for you and start from there really, each bike being different. If I'm pushing it on the Yam, I'll go with a stiffer fork (compression higher and more oil). Trying out the Husky now, and it seems it likes a harder rear more than anything. Currently, i'd say finding your own controller settings >>>> all. I'm running 30%stab, 75% direct lean. No reason except I feel like I have direct control on the bike lean while removing the jitter from the analog stick.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Braap570 on June 16, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
thanks guys i will try it with other gearing Setup first :)
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Braap570 on June 16, 2016, 02:08:38 PM
ok guys, testet it, the new gearing works better :) i just dont understand what to Change to make the bike better with Suspension... some lines i can tripple now. but not a full lap with riding fast without crashing :D sometimes after the Corner my bike gets in the air to the inner side, and than i cant get it back to a straight Position to a track... so maybe just have to make some Training. :D

but now to the track:

I like it very much! it s so cool to see some tracks like this in mxb... maybe some berms could be a bit higher but its such a funny and great track! thanks for this :)
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 16, 2016, 05:50:35 PM
Yea braap. keep at it!  Gearing is a great start but don't forget seat bounce and other more advanced riding techniques..these may be necessary even after suspension set up!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 16, 2016, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: BadStar on June 16, 2016, 05:50:35 PM
Yea braap. keep at it!  Gearing is a great start but don't forget seat bounce and other more advanced riding techniques..these may be necessary even after suspension set up!

And controller settings so you feel you KNOW what the bike is doing. When taking off, the bike is going to amplify what is was about to do on the face of the jump - change your lean angle and you'll be rotating a lot in the air. You can take jumps with a relatively important angle, just keep it constant.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 16, 2016, 06:14:45 PM
Just to give an example as to ride style/settings/gearing are per user more than anyting..

I just did a clean lap with triple triple on stock msm's 250f but with Asdreal's 13/52 gearing. :)
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 16, 2016, 06:23:51 PM
Seems like gearing, seat bounce, air braking..makes it happen
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 16, 2016, 06:29:10 PM
yeah I nailed a couple of rhythms this morning which felt great. Spot on gearing Asdrael, makes a big difference.

Leaning slightly forward up the face of a rhythm when your half way down it works wonders too! Not too far too late or you'll either suck up all the bounce or cause too much rebound!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 16, 2016, 06:33:22 PM
Quote from: TheFatController on June 16, 2016, 06:29:10 PM
yeah I nailed a couple of rhythms this morning which felt great. Spot on gearing Asdrael, makes a big difference.

Leaning slightly forward up the face of a rhythm when your half way down it works wonders too! Not too far too late or you'll either suck up all the bounce or cause too much rebound!

Actually really happy that you guys are starting to like it and figure it out. I knew it was very technical and would take a long time, hence why I wasn't fussed with the first comments.

Once you 'get it' on a bike, try the others. You will notice big differences, you'll have to adjust suspensions and techniques slightly, but you might end up being better (and with a  more suitable bike for you). If you struggle in the whoops but feel good compensating the front end rebound, try the CRF. On the other end of the spectrum, if you are a god in the whoops but need help in the air, try the Husky.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 16, 2016, 06:52:56 PM
So what was the 'whoops secret' ??
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 16, 2016, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: TheFatController on June 16, 2016, 06:52:56 PM
So what was the 'whoops secret' ??

hoh :p The second set of Rd01 is the same as the set of Rd02. Simple copy paste, no change at all. I was expecting more bitching about it haha. They are tighter than the first set so you have to let off the gas coming in to make sure the front wheel starts skimming asap.

So here, the first set was made so that you NEED the speed of the triple to pass, the second set so that you NEED to get through cleanly to get the triple after.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 16, 2016, 07:47:36 PM
Funny... because I was thought "this first set of whoops are nice..this second set reminds me of rnd 02".  haha
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Paradox28 on June 17, 2016, 05:17:15 AM
I just suck at supercross riding on my 450, thats all :)
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 17, 2016, 06:12:41 AM
I think 450 is harder in general.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 18, 2016, 02:35:45 PM
Then for some reason, completely out of the blue, you get it.. You figure it out.. You're running a 1:14 every other lap! 8)

Love it.
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 20, 2016, 12:51:31 AM
Make that a 1:11 ;D
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 20, 2016, 12:54:18 AM
Quote from: TheFatController on June 20, 2016, 12:51:31 AM
Make that a 1:11 ;D

Awesome!   I can get the triple triple double double on the 2md rhythm by the finish..but not on the 1st set. yet at least.

Sick times, you win!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 20, 2016, 12:55:37 AM
Dunno about that, was so happy I recorded the lap, that's a rarity haha..
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: BadStar on June 20, 2016, 10:54:11 PM
Im going to roll every jump, no crash and see if I win   ;)



serisously considering it hahah
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 21, 2016, 09:18:12 PM
Make that a 1:10 ;D
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on June 24, 2016, 10:30:27 AM
Ref what you said in the gtx thread..

The only thing I find odd is the triples, you can hit them 100% straight and true and you still sometimes end up a bit sideways in the air. This isn't a major problem until you have a big whoops section right after!

I've had this before with jumps but not sure of the cause. Could be the face is at a slight angle as I find the triple after the whoops always spins me left slightly (I think left but it's always the same direction regardless) meaning I have to adjust in the air and straighten up.

Also, in between some of the rhythms the transitions on one or two of them are a bit sharp, I don't mean steep but literally it doesn't look like it's had enough smoothing.

But, these are very minor issues, as we found last night it was very racable, fun batlles, rhythm choices were used. I'd be very disappointed if you didn't make more!
Title: Re: SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)
Post by: Asdrael on June 24, 2016, 11:33:35 AM
That helps a lot, thanks for taking the time to write it.

I definitely agree with your comments, and I think I have located the causes of them.

One is the "springiness" of the suspension. Whatever slight angle you have, the suspensions tend to increase rather than dampen the rebound of the bike. It's almost impossible to have obstacles at 100% alignment with your rider, so the rear always kicks a tad sideways when the obstacle is very steep - as has to be the case in SX. It gets even worse when suspensions are already doing something before you hit a jump face, which is the case in rhythm sections and after whoops. For reference, the two supercross triples in A1 are exactly the same (copy/paste the section, add a rotation).

The other is 100% my fault. Technically, I have used "building blocks" in Photoshop when making the track, resulting in me smoothing the obstacles (whoever cares, Gaussian Filter) THEN rotating. It seems to mess up slightly with how smooth they end up, probably due to the discreet nature of the scale. I should have (and will) either place THEN use the GF, or do an additional very small GF on the final layout.

Thanks again for the feedback, and glad you guys had fun on it. I'm getting less free time those days to make tracks, but hopefully we'll soon have a range of SX tracks (either from me or others) to make a small SX series.