MX Bikes Official Forum

Share what you think of the current state of the game. Improvements that can be made and your general thoughts.

Mine:

• The left to right lean(bike) feels very sensitive, might just be my settings.

• I feel like the bike is unresponsive in the air, you can get it to turn one way but it's close to impossible to get it back.

• At really low speed I have no control over the bike, it either slides out, loose the front end or i simply fall of.

This is meant to be constructive criticism and not a list to hurt anyone's feelings. I simply want to help with what I feel could be worked on.

Happy release day everyone and thanks for a great game guys! :D

I hate you can not put to moves on the one button etc I hated that in gp bikes and asked for a new feature and it'll be my frustration in mxb aswell haha.

Anyone willing to share a setup when they have mastered there own will be greatly appreciated haha

Quote from: Midbeck on September 30, 2014, 06:17:54 PM
The left to right lean(bike) feels very sensitive, might just be my settings.

Have you tried adjusting the deadzone / linearity at all?

The other problems are known, will be worked on!

Quote from: Snappe on September 30, 2014, 06:28:42 PM

Quote from: Midbeck on September 30, 2014, 06:17:54 PM
The left to right lean(bike) feels very sensitive, might just be my settings.

Have you tried adjusting the deadzone / linearity at all?

The other problems are known, will be worked on!

I've tried messing around with it a bit. It's mostly at low speeds that the steering is super sensitive. I'll keep trying and get back to you :)

Havent tried it yet BUT PiBoSo or Snappe, you guys would be doing me a HUGE solid if you can help me get this controller working: http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/gaming-controllers/razer-sabertooth

I bought it for GP-Bikes and MX-Bikes so I could have more buttons for controls without taking my thumbs off the joysticks, however I have no clue what drivers it uses. I dont think its Xinput or the xbox 360 drivers. Ive tried many times to use it GP-Bikes but was unsuccessful every time. It doesnt even show up as a controller when I go to calibrate. If anyone could help me I would be soooooo greatful <3

I assume the Sabertooth functions as a standard 360 pad in windows.. So there's no reason why it shouldn't work!

I'm trying to figure out why I keep assigning "Throttle" to my right trigger, however, every time I do that, It unassigns my Brake on the left trigger.

Download this and put it in the MX Bikes/plugins folder:

http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli (http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli)

It will split the triggers into 2 axis!

Omg, thanks a bunch! That will help alot!

Quote from: Snappe on September 30, 2014, 07:45:11 PM
Download this and put it in the MX Bikes/plugins folder:

http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli (http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli)

It will split the triggers into 2 axis!

OH MY GOD SNAPPE PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS UNIVERSAL!!! I use a logitech xinput controller for most games but i hate how you cant press both triggers at same time and have both functions work at the same time. Thats what splitting the axis does right? Im in desperate need of this please tell me thats what this is!

Quote from: MotoRogers499 on September 30, 2014, 07:56:29 PM

Quote from: Snappe on September 30, 2014, 07:45:11 PM
Download this and put it in the MX Bikes/plugins folder:

http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli (http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli)

It will split the triggers into 2 axis!

OH MY GOD SNAPPE PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS UNIVERSAL!!! I use a logitech xinput controller for most games but i hate how you cant press both triggers at same time and have both functions work at the same time. Thats what splitting the axis does right? Im in desperate need of this please tell me thats what this is!

That is what it does, yes

<3 love you

i really like it but its just getting used to it!

once its all sorted and i have a set up that works for me i will for sure buy it, any one a rough price?

Quote from: MotardMatt on September 30, 2014, 08:30:00 PM
i really like it but its just getting used to it!

once its all sorted and i have a set up that works for me i will for sure buy it, any one a rough price?

25 euros

price is good, can we use out gp bikes UID?

why whenever i do a lap without crashing i get just saying a 2:31 then i crashed like 4 times then got a 2:19 just wondering why it does that

I have noticed also that the times don't seem accurate.  I had what I feel was my smoothest lap and it was way slow compared to a crash filled next lap.

How do you get back on the bike after you crash? LOL

Is anyone else's forwards/backwards rider lean backwards?

Default : Key "R"

Quote from: Mikey on September 30, 2014, 10:43:41 PM
Is anyone else's forwards/backwards rider lean backwards?

yes and it's the biggest problem in the game i think......it's very confusing

Quote from: Mikey on September 30, 2014, 10:43:41 PM
Is anyone else's forwards/backwards rider lean backwards?

I had this problem with my xbox360 controller but I realized it has to do with how you assign the axis in the options. When I assigned the axis by going up with my thumbstick it reversed the controls so I just assigned the axis by going down with the thumbstick and it solved the problem!

I'm loving it so far. Been messing around in the garage a little bit. Softer suspension and tires seems to help.

Anyone else on keyboard?

Initial Thoughts of the Game After about 2 hours of playing(I'm going to compare everything to MXS, because that's what I know) :

Another Side note, i'm writing this as I play the game, so everything is in order lol

1) Visually awesome game, blows MXS way out of the water. Clutch Movements, rider movements, all that is awesome. Maybe needs some tweaking. But Awesome.

2) I dont like how 1st person view looks in corners, personally I think I should feel "ontop" of the bike, i feel "off beside it" If that makes sense. Feels like GP bikes....which it works there, but I don't think it works in this game.

3) I feel like the front end slides around too much, and the rear end tracks too straight. I've tried messing with air pressure, suspension, and tire compounds, but that's just my general feel of it.

4) Suspension, and their adjustments are awesome, although I hope it gets more adjustment in the future, it does genuinely work, and you can tell.

5) The WAY the sounds work, I think is pretty awesome, the sounds themselves need some work.

6) Getting faster, but now i'm starting to have front end bite issues, seems to want to slide out more than it should, and in places I wouldn't expect.

7) Why the hell am I flying through the air sideways I hit the jump straight lol

8) Just went into 3rd person, why does the whole riders body not move when I lean them around? When I ride in real life, I move my whole body around the bike, not just my neck lol :P

9) Just playing around in this game and seeing how things work is really fun!

10) You put some sick skins and models in this game, you're gonna have some amazing media coming from this game........

So, here's MY deal. I love mx simulator, I do, simple. But, It's getting old, and I would like something fresh and fun to rip around on. This is looking very very promising. It has a certain realism to it that just makes me excited to see what can be done to it with some fairly substantial tweaks. I think that the way the bike accelerates and brakes, is pretty awesome, the suspension is definitely headed in the right direction, and the models and animation is just plain awesome. But my biggest complaint is definitely the turning physics, and the 1st person view. In my opinion, more LIKE, not exact, but more LIKE the 1st person view of mx simulator would be a huge help. The turning physics....well, as the game is in development still, I'm sure that will be sorted out :)

Thanks For letting us play it, I do enjoy the game as a whole :)

I agree that at low speeds the bike is too sensitive. Once I get going I do much better.

And I'm not sure if it's because I've played for 5 minutes or what but there is no sense of any gyro effect when in the air.

Also, the sounds are god aweful as of now. Like, really bad!

My Throttle seems to be a bit twitchy. i think Piboso posted a link for it earlier but i cant find it anymore. If anyone knows what it was please share? If not does anyone know a resolution to the problem?

EDIT: NVM took off all the assists and its fine now :)

Quote from: Snappe on September 30, 2014, 07:45:11 PM
Download this and put it in the MX Bikes/plugins folder:

http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli (http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli)

It will split the triggers into 2 axis!

the you go moto

Quote from: MX181 on October 01, 2014, 01:22:47 AM

Quote from: Snappe on September 30, 2014, 07:45:11 PM
Download this and put it in the MX Bikes/plugins folder:

http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli (http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/xinput.dli)

It will split the triggers into 2 axis!

the you go moto

Thanks!

I cant go on any servers. When I try to connect it just says error. No code or anything, just "error"

anybody know where to put the gear and what to name it?

Quote from: chase_desselle on October 01, 2014, 02:09:56 AM
anybody know where to put the gear and what to name it?

you have to make a folder in the directory not sure on the naming convention but try "bikes" and "gear" i suppose haha i sore it somewhere just cant be arsed finding it hahaha sorry

Its funny that you say that you have front end washing issues, I feel like there is way too much traction everywhere.

My short list for now:
1.Wider angle 1st person view
2.Rider front/back lean has too much influence on the bike IMO
3.No gyro using rear brake in air
4.Turning just doesn't feel like turning on a dirt bike it feels like turning on a street bike.
5.Front end knifing over bumps, its like my arms are made of Jello.
6.Sometimes the bike will go forever after I fall off it, this isn't realistic for a dirtbike on uneven ground

Overall I am enjoying it, if the turning was a little more rear wheel based I think it would feel a lot better.  I agree the rider should stay more vertical and lean the bike more under him, that view would be great.  Had a couple good battles online with some randoms it was fun until I got stuck on one of the hills on Budds.

Nice work so far.

Has anyone gotten a custom track in yet?  I have been trying but it wont show up when I try to select it.

I find that the game's graphics are impressive and much more fluid. This is an alpha, but once they have improved the simulation, the game easily exceed MXS! I urge Piboso and Snappe and evolve the game. I hope there will be also a good community because the online looks at the top !!

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 01, 2014, 06:21:24 AM
1.Wider angle 1st person view.

Go into Documents/piboso/mxbikes/profiles/your profile/ open the profile.ini then scroll down to fov and you can put it past 90. I ride at 125. Much better. Note if you change your settings in game it will default back to 90 and you will have to go back in and change it.

First 2 hours, partly fiddling with settings, partly on practice track. First impressions are mixed. The structure of the game for supporting community content and things like bike settings and save/load setups is much nicer than mxs, so good job on that.  After a while of playing, the squeaky brake sound was starting to get annoying though. Main issue though was Im feeling a little nauseous after playing. I suspect its the camera system. I can play MXS in first person for hours and does not make me feel like I am right now after only 1 hour with mx bikes. The slow speed swerving wasn't helping. :o I want to support the game, but if its going to make me sick, I might have to pass. 

Why doesnt the rider put out his leg in corners as in the videos?

He does.. it just aint all splayed out and whacky like other games. Watch a replay of yourself go round a corner and you will see your leg is down

Alrite guys!? finding mxbikes pretty good so far.. much to learn, its tricky but feels great ripping round the track!  :P struggling to control the bike in the air though but its early days so its all good  ;) looking forward to future beta's  :P

Great so far, struggling to get the hang of it, i believe perhaps another 3rd person camera which just follows behind and doesn't move with the motion of the bike/rider i feel the current one doesn't really give a great experience.

Also feels like the bike reacts very different on different angles of terrain? is this true? i cannot get a consistent feel for the bikes motion at the moment.

Yeah, I'm finding it very hard to jump at any angle even tiny.

Sometimes the bike handles great at an angle over a lip, and the bike smoothly glides through the air how you'd expect.

But sometimes even the slightest lean angle on a jump and you're doing a 180 lol...

But I am really loving this game, tearing around the straights, corners, and straight jumps - it's got such a real feel to it  ;D

Its pretty wonky right now.
Some times it feels nice and i can see potential.

But other times it feels too similair to GP bikes and thats not what we want more an MX game. The turning is very finnicky, worse than simulators, if you hit a slight change in track height you go down, wheel goes tiny bit to top of berm go down, go a normal slow speed fall down. Ive gotten a couple of full laps in with no crashes on the practice track.

And of course the air physics are out of whack as of now. Random 180s, though i did get a really nice accident scrub on the Budds Creek track.

Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:48:50 AM

Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
Its pretty wonky right now.
Some times it feels nice and i can see potential.

But other times it feels too similair to GP bikes and thats not what we want more an MX game. The turning is very finnicky, worse than simulators, if you hit a slight change in track height you go down, wheel goes tiny bit to top of berm go down, go a normal slow speed fall down. Ive gotten a couple of full laps in with no crashes on the practice track.

Ummm....ya! It is wonky atm.

Yes, "finicky" is an issue. BUT.........I totally see the potential. THIS IS THE "NEXT-GEN" MX GAME! 

No doubt

I dont know about that. Its got a long way to come to even compete against mx sim. If someone can show me a full lap of them going around "Maryland" i would like to see that. But as of now it feels if the tracks were anything harder than the practice track racing wouldnt be possible.

Im more impressed with the graphics than anything at this point. I would also like a new third person camera as its a bit strange now, and the first person views are disorientating coming from sim.

Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:58:56 AM

Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:51:14 AM

Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:48:50 AM

Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
Its pretty wonky right now.
Some times it feels nice and i can see potential.

But other times it feels too similair to GP bikes and thats not what we want more an MX game. The turning is very finnicky, worse than simulators, if you hit a slight change in track height you go down, wheel goes tiny bit to top of berm go down, go a normal slow speed fall down. Ive gotten a couple of full laps in with no crashes on the practice track.

Ummm....ya! It is wonky atm.

Yes, "finicky" is an issue. BUT.........I totally see the potential. THIS IS THE "NEXT-GEN" MX GAME! 

No doubt

I dont know about that. Its got a long way to come to even compete against mx sim. If someone can show me a full lap of them going around "Maryland" i would like to see that. But as of now it feels if the tracks were anything harder than the practice track racing wouldnt be possible.

Im more impressed with the graphics than anything at this point. I would also like a new third person camera as its a bit strange now, and the first person views are disorientating coming from sim.

i love the first person view (second one)! How do you not?

Anyway......third person.....who cares.

And more anyway.......ya it's gotta grow. There will be updates to improve things! But this is the "next-gen". No doubt.

Later I will upload (after trying to get my track done and uploaded) a clean lap of Maryland! Maybe you just suck!!!!!!

Oh i definitely suck, just like when sim came out. Took me a good few months to be able to do consecutive laps on a SX track in that game.
and i want to like the first person, that's all i use in sim.
There's just something about the feel of the game. It sort of reminds me of the arcade mode of mx sim.
but i havent stopped playing it since i bought it, and i almost got a full maryland lap except for the top section in the back.

Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:58:56 AM

Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:51:14 AM

Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:48:50 AM

Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
Its pretty wonky right now.
Some times it feels nice and i can see potential.

But other times it feels too similair to GP bikes and thats not what we want more an MX game. The turning is very finnicky, worse than simulators, if you hit a slight change in track height you go down, wheel goes tiny bit to top of berm go down, go a normal slow speed fall down. Ive gotten a couple of full laps in with no crashes on the practice track.

Ummm....ya! It is wonky atm.

Yes, "finicky" is an issue. BUT.........I totally see the potential. THIS IS THE "NEXT-GEN" MX GAME! 

No doubt

I dont know about that. Its got a long way to come to even compete against mx sim. If someone can show me a full lap of them going around "Maryland" i would like to see that. But as of now it feels if the tracks were anything harder than the practice track racing wouldnt be possible.

Im more impressed with the graphics than anything at this point. I would also like a new third person camera as its a bit strange now, and the first person views are disorientating coming from sim.

i love the first person view (second one)! How do you not?

Anyway......third person.....who cares.

And more anyway.......ya it's gotta grow. There will be updates to improve things! But this is the "next-gen". No doubt.

Later I will upload (after trying to get my track done and uploaded) a clean lap of Maryland! Maybe you just suck!!!!!!

Ya I care about 3rd person cause 1st makes me wanna puke. Thanks for not making it all about you.

My thoughts so far are that the game lacks a ton of things and needs a ton of work. With it being the 1st beta though I feel like the game is going to be really good when things start to take more form. Honestly I have a ton of fun playing, and the graphics are just amazing. I cant wait to see beta2 now. Hopefully now that the game has been released piboso can get some good feedback and get things sorted out a little quicker. Even the game is lacking a lot in these early stages, I know the first full release is going to be amazing.

The base of the sim is great, best starting point for an alpha release I've personally seen. Saying that, there are some very distinct issues keeping this from truly feeling like an Mx bike. In saying that, these critisicms are purely from a constructive viewpoint. I've put in several hours and messed around with every setting I can think of. I'm gathering my thoughts the best I can.

1. By far and away the biggest issue to me is the cameras on all of the 1st and 3rd person cams. There is this odd swivel effect that does not lend itself well to Mx, it seems like a transplant from GP Bikes. Not good. There shouldn't be such a harsh disconnect from the bike/front end while turning and leaning. In Mx there is a positive feel you must maintain with the front end or your gonna be slow or crash often. In GP Bikes these cameras work and make great sense for the sim. On a street bike the gyro of the bike is a huge factor and you are leaning into the turns and such. In Mx it's more of weighting the ouside peg, sitting up near the tank and flowing through corners. This should be adressed sooner than later in my opinion.

2. The automatic centering of the bike after making any turning movement on the joystick is completely unnecessary. In fact I may consider this to be the #1 issue, and may be why the cameras feel odd in the first place, but I digress. It feels as though you may have boosted the gyro effect or added some form of stabilizing effect which completely takes proper fine control away from the player.  (I'm guessing not, but something isn't right here). It makes turning feel delayed to your input and hard to correct and judge. The in air controls may be affected by this strange auto centering force as well. I know it's stupid to compare, but the way Mx simulator handles the bike leaning is the way to aim for. You should be the one to bring the bike back up for the most part, not the game.

3. Low speed stability needs a lot of thought. It's completly off the mark compared to what it should be and feels in real life. In real life it only takes a tiny bit of gas and momentum to get the bike to balance and stay upright on its own. As of now, it's like a fish out of water, just flipping and flopping all willy nilly. I'm sure it's much easier to gripe about this than to simulate this, but it needs some love.

4.i suppose this belongs with #3 but oh well. The way the physics handle hills and changes in terrain is extremely bizarre. It reacts nothing like it does in real life. Its entirely off putting when you fall on or before a hill and get stuck on it for 5 mins...not fun.

5. The traction on front and rear are hit and miss. At times it feels like your truly ripping in the soil. Other times, the front end washes out like it hit an oil patch out of nowhere. It's unlike Mx Simulators issue, which happens when you lean to far or hit uneven terrain wrong. It just happens randomly sometimes. There's no sense of feeling before losing grip completely and washing out.

There are other things in my mind, I may edit later. For now this is a good start. These are strictly constructive critisicms for piboso and team. I only wish to aid in improvement of this potentially amazing simulator you have created for all of us! I'm very thankful for the work you've put in and the constant contact and feedback from you. I hope to see this continue and that you stick with this and all of us to make this gem really shine. It close, but needs a few improvements to make this an unbelievable Mx simulation! Congrats on the release!

cdub hit the nail on the head, he described all of the main issues

Quote from: PDR on October 02, 2014, 06:51:37 AM
cdub hit the nail on the head, he described all of the main issues

Agreed.

Quote from: MXK_cdub85 on October 02, 2014, 06:41:05 AM
2. The automatic centering of the bike after making any turning movement on the joystick is completely unnecessary. In fact I may consider this to be the #1 issue, and may be why the cameras feel odd in the first place, but I digress. It feels as though you may have boosted the gyro effect or added some form of stabilizing effect which completely takes proper fine control away from the player.  (I'm guessing not, but something isn't right here). It makes turning feel delayed to your input and hard to correct and judge. The in air controls may be affected by this strange auto centering force as well. I know it's stupid to compare, but the way Mx simulator handles the bike leaning is the way to aim for. You should be the one to bring the bike back up for the most part, not the game.

There's a "Direct lean" option in the input settings, this will avoid the "delay effect" and what you call the "self centering" (which is in fact not a self-centering, but just a slow response to your stick going back to middle).

The leaning will become much more twitchy (you may want to use smooth and play with linearity). After years and years of GPB, i still don't get how people can play without "direct lean" set to ON. Notice however that in GPB the vast majority of the players use Direct lean OFF (unchecked).

MaX.

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 02, 2014, 08:56:18 AM

Quote from: MXK_cdub85 on October 02, 2014, 06:41:05 AM
2. The automatic centering of the bike after making any turning movement on the joystick is completely unnecessary. In fact I may consider this to be the #1 issue, and may be why the cameras feel odd in the first place, but I digress. It feels as though you may have boosted the gyro effect or added some form of stabilizing effect which completely takes proper fine control away from the player.  (I'm guessing not, but something isn't right here). It makes turning feel delayed to your input and hard to correct and judge. The in air controls may be affected by this strange auto centering force as well. I know it's stupid to compare, but the way Mx simulator handles the bike leaning is the way to aim for. You should be the one to bring the bike back up for the most part, not the game.

There's a "Direct lean" option in the input settings, this will avoid the "delay effect" and what you call the "self centering" (which is in fact not a self-centering, but just a slow response to your stick going back to middle).

The leaning will become much more twitchy (you may want to use smooth and play with linearity). After years and years of GPB, i still don't get how people can play without "direct lean" set to ON. Notice however that in GPB the vast majority of the players use Direct lean OFF (unchecked).

MaX.

IDK if you have played MX Simulator, seems like you have come from the GP bikes side.  In MXS if you want to turn right you move the stick to the right until you are leaned over enough then let it return to center.  Then it will stay like that until you move the stick left of center (the leveling amount does bring it up on its own but you virtually always have to correct it).  I feel like Direct Lean is dictating the bike lean angle with the stick vs. the fork angle that is a completely different thing.  I did try it and in some cases I liked it better and in some I thought it was horrible (mostly jumping).

The bike standing up just seems erratic to me and sometimes it works perfect and sometimes it over or under corrects and it takes too long to make the correction manually so I end up in the grass or one of the fences.  I think this feel works well in GP Bikes (I got that a while back and it is very good) it just doesn't feel right on a lighter bike at lower speeds.  In comparison a dirt bike should be much faster to change directions and more nimble.

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:32:58 AM
IDK if you have played MX Simulator, seems like you have come from the GP bikes side.

Gave it a try (demo) a long ago. No thanks :) But I'm not that much into cross, to be honest. GPB is what I eat, drink and breathe.

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:32:58 AM
In MXS if you want to turn right you move the stick to the right until you are leaned over enough then let it return to center.  Then it will stay like that until you move the stick left of center (the leveling amount does bring it up on its own but you virtually always have to correct it).  I feel like Direct Lean is dictating the bike lean angle with the stick vs. the fork angle that is a completely different thing.  I did try it and in some cases I liked it better and in some I thought it was horrible (mostly jumping).

The bike standing up just seems erratic to me and sometimes it works perfect and sometimes it over or under corrects and it takes too long to make the correction manually so I end up in the grass or one of the fences.  I think this feel works well in GP Bikes (I got that a while back and it is very good) it just doesn't feel right on a lighter bike at lower speeds.  In comparison a dirt bike should be much faster to change directions and more nimble.

In GPB and MXB the stick associated to the "lean" input (bike lean, not rider lean) dictates the lean (doh !). So yes, it's not what MXS does.
With or without direct lean, if you don't want your bike to stand up, then leave the stick where it is, do not allow it to go back to middle.

The discussion is very interesting, you should create a separate topic.

MaX.

We shouldn't forget the MX Simulator dosen't have to be the standard. Personally, and this is my opinion only, MX Bikes feel better already than MX Simulator. In MXS you are able to drive in this angle \ for miles straight, if you just get the throttle right - I find that a bit weird as I would guess the more speed you get, the more the bike will try to stand upright like this |, that's why you can't turn your own handlebars when you're going high speeds. To counter that, you lean the bike, not turn the handlebars. I guess when you're in a turn, to center the bike back after a turn, you would counter-lean.

Just my humble opinion.

EDIT: I changed my FOV to 110 as I saw somewhere on the forums, and that has made me able to do several laps without crashing. The first person camera is a lot more precise like that in my opinion!

After playing this game now for a lot of hours I really feel like this is GPbikes but on dirt. The bike feels way to connected to the ground and if the back end steps out just a bit you go down. I re watched some of the old pre alpha footage and I just wonder what happened to those physics? Because in my honest opinion those looks more realistic.

I'm excited about the game and I really believe that it has a bright future, but to be honest I feel like updates need to happen pretty quick otherwise people will lose interest in the game.

Oh one more thing, I personally love the slower pace in this game compared to MXS, but I also feel like i have to go that slow because the bike is way to unpredictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjfO5GCvwJo @ 1:58 That is probably one of the few things I miss from mxs. The fact that you have almost full control in the corner.


Sorry for the rant.

Lets all just play MXB for some months and then compare MXB and MXS, and ask for quick updates.
I get that there are a couple of things different than MXS, and maybe not as realistic, but TBH the game feels a LOT more realistic than any other MX game I played.

I'm sure 99% of the guys who play MXS now never thought it'd be this fun, the first week they played it. So just play MXB for some more months and after that we can compare it to real life, or to other games.

And yes, there obviously are weird things in MXB, but we got a LOT in MXS too.

Quote from: Sandbiter on October 02, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
Lets all just play MXB for some months and then compare MXB and MXS, and ask for quick updates.
I get that there are a couple of things different than MXS, and maybe not as realistic, but TBH the game feels a LOT more realistic than any other MX game I played.

I'm sure 99% of the guys who play MXS now never thought it'd be this fun, the first week they played it. So just play MXB for some more months and after that we can compare it to real life, or to other games.

And yes, there obviously are weird things in MXB, but we got a LOT in MXS too.

Well tbh the problems i've pointed out isnt a matter of putting in hours. I really do believe that it's crucial for piboso and snappe to focus on the problems that have been pointed out as quick as possible.

And it's natural to compare it to MXS because that's the ONLY game to compare it to.

Quote from: Midbeck on October 02, 2014, 11:15:23 AM

Quote from: Sandbiter on October 02, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
Lets all just play MXB for some months and then compare MXB and MXS, and ask for quick updates.
I get that there are a couple of things different than MXS, and maybe not as realistic, but TBH the game feels a LOT more realistic than any other MX game I played.

I'm sure 99% of the guys who play MXS now never thought it'd be this fun, the first week they played it. So just play MXB for some more months and after that we can compare it to real life, or to other games.

And yes, there obviously are weird things in MXB, but we got a LOT in MXS too.

Well tbh the problems i've pointed out isnt a matter of putting in hours. I really do believe that it's crucial for piboso and snappe to focus on the problems that have been pointed out as quick as possible.

And it's natural to compare it to MXS because that's the ONLY game to compare it to.

But you've had MXS for a lot of years already, MXB isn't even out for a week yet.

QuoteThere's a "Direct lean" option in the input settings
MaX.

Like I previously, stated I have tried all of the different settings I could think of, including direct lean on and off. While it's much better with direct lean 'off', the same issue is still present. It's a rather odd choice of implementing control tbh. I want to be clear that I am in no way bashing on this sim. I've been following it for a year or so anxious as hell to get my hands on it. It's healthy to give feedback in a constructive manner. There's very clearly a lot of work physics wise before this has bike physics close to Mx Sim, let alone a real dirtbike. I just don't see you having the fine control over the bike that Mx Sim provides with the current build. I am only comparing the two as that's all there is to go off of. I don't want this to be an enhanced Mx Simulator,  as it 's not even  technically a "real" sim. Just trying to point out and discuss these things with fellow players and the developers. No harm done.

P.S. I am enjoying it regardless of the issues at hand. It's so close, just no cigar yet  ;)

amazing first beta!!!! congrats to the Dev team!!  I did five laps then went straight back here and purchased it!!!

pros-
visuals are just top notch! I maxed everything and it ran smooth as silk! (gtx570, intel i5 2500 3.3 ghz)
absolutely beautiful! love the shadows and on object/rider shadows different weather ect is fantastic!
clutch is nice, braking is fine too, I actually like the sounds too!!
track textures, 3d grass are great and trackside animations like the flaggers is sweet!!!
user interface is nice and clean too!
I can see huge potential for this!!!

cons-
I agree with mostly what cdub said.
but with the steering id like to change the "leaning" to steering. I want full control of that steering!!
direct steering the bars instead of "leaning"  is where I think it needs to be. in gp bikes leaning works great because you only need to steer slightly. but on a dirtbike you are doing such tight turns and using the steering in the air to control the bike. even when on "direct" steering the steering is over ridden by something and feels unnatural. having full control I believe will fix most steering problems including control in air!
also there's something not right about the traction. even in the rain the bikes rear doesn't want to slide or even wheel spin?

in the UI just some more general help text would be much appreciated! a help bubble for each parameter in UI and bike settings would be nice for us beginner's. half the questions here would be solved with this.
better controller calibration setup info (just some text explaining what to do and/or a default xbox 360 and ps3 setup) more info for each advanced function here too.
we are all flying blind.
also for tyres are they for soft dirt or are they soft compound? eg an mx soft tyre is for mud/sand and has larger nobs further spaced. a hard has closer nobs and softer compound. in general just some more info is wanted otherwise you will see the same questions appear over and over on these forums!

all in all great effort for a first beta! and just like CDub said please use this as feedback rather than negativity.

Quote from: al167 on October 02, 2014, 02:34:25 PM
but with the steering id like to change the "leaning" to steering. I want full control of that steering!!
direct steering the bars instead of "leaning"  is where I think it needs to be. in gp bikes leaning works great because you only need to steer slightly. but on a dirtbike you are doing such tight turns and using the steering in the air to control the bike. even when on "direct" steering the steering is over ridden by something and feels unnatural. having full control I believe will fix most steering problems including control in air!

That's very very unlikely.

In GPB it is possible to have direct steering (there are even two different flavors of it), it's a option buried in a .ini file (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0)).
But it's extremely hard to use. For start, you should have a force feedback device (like a g27 wheel), otherwise it makes little sense (at least in one of the two variants).
Then, at low speed it's a nightmare,as the bike is very unstable and sensitive to what you do with the handlebars.

MaX.

From what I can see MxB needs to be it's own game and separate itself from GP bikes. This is a dirt bike not a street bike, they are opposite sides of the spectrum. Even though MXS is the only game to compare this to, you have to remember it's been out for 6 years and MxB just came out also.

I would say this was a pretty successful first beta and I'm sure Piboso and Snappe got a nice little pay day these last few days for a little motivation. Obviously they stated the physics were rough and needed a lot of work, I'm excited to see where this game will be in a few months or even a year. I see lots of potential here.

I also have issues standing the bike back up after corner. I want the bike to stay where I put it, until I move the stick back the other way.  :-\

Honestly, in MXS i play with my leveling around 30-40 depending on if im riding supercross or motocross, so coming to MXB it doesnt feel a hell of a lot different with how the bike wants to return upright. Im fine with it. Playing with direct lean on feels over exaggerated, but with it off the bike naturally returns upright by itself realistically.

Quote from: shanebell618 on October 02, 2014, 06:44:37 PM
I also have issues standing the bike back up after corner. I want the bike to stay where I put it, until I move the stick back the other way.  :-\

disable "direct lean" in the settings ;)

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 02, 2014, 03:25:32 PM

Quote from: al167 on October 02, 2014, 02:34:25 PM
but with the steering id like to change the "leaning" to steering. I want full control of that steering!!
direct steering the bars instead of "leaning"  is where I think it needs to be. in gp bikes leaning works great because you only need to steer slightly. but on a dirtbike you are doing such tight turns and using the steering in the air to control the bike. even when on "direct" steering the steering is over ridden by something and feels unnatural. having full control I believe will fix most steering problems including control in air!

That's very very unlikely.

In GPB it is possible to have direct steering (there are even two different flavors of it), it's a option buried in a .ini file (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0)).
But it's extremely hard to use. For start, you should have a force feedback device (like a g27 wheel), otherwise it makes little sense (at least in one of the two variants).
Then, at low speed it's a nightmare,as the bike is very unstable and sensitive to what you do with the handlebars.

MaX.

Does this work in MXB?  I may have to try it.

I sort of saw this coming, since there are 2 groups of people coming from different games/sims and converging on this one there are going to be fundamental disagreements on what people prefer in how the game feels.  IMO the way MX Bikes is now is more similar to how MX Sim is with arcade mode enabled.  As it sits the bike is doing too much steering without my input.  When I notice that I am drifting left I steer right but it is doing its own thing and messes up what I have already done.  To be a Sim IMO it needs to rely more on user input and less on targeting a lean angle.  I don't really care how that happens I just need to take back more of the control from the computer.  I don't think end user control should be sacrificed in the name of making a sim easier, MXS has proven that people are willing to take the time to learn how to play a game even if it takes months to make a single clean lap.  Do I think it needs to be that extreme?  No I don't.  But I think there is somewhere in the middle that is optimal.

Obviously it is a few days after Beta 1 release and this is not a final build so I don't want to be harsh.  I think that the graphics are really great and I want to make some really cool tracks (this is why I am so worried about it).  That said, the direction that the dev team goes with this issue will make or break the game for a lot of people.  Personally if it is a refined version of this then it is not something that I would be willing to invest time into content creation because I won't enjoy the end product of my work.

I know each dev has a direction they want to travel and often times it is hard to get them to investigate alternatives.  We have seen it countless times in MXS and I would just urge Piboso and Snappe to really read everyones feedback and take it into consideration.  Play around with the physics and don't limit yourself to one way of thinking.  If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

Yesterday I struggled with MXB, thought it was good but struggled with jumps, turns and couldnt find any flow..
Today I found it awesome! Instead of going around at snail pace I just went for it! Turns out its much easier the faster you go lol

Has to be onboard view to really understand whats going on in corners etc imo.
Seems you can be aggressive and attack the track which didnt seem possible for me yesterday!

So all in all im enjoying it. Should be a great sim!  ;)

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
Does this work in MXB?  I may have to try it.

I haven't seen it mentioned in the doc, so either it doesn't work either it has been kept hidden (likely for a good reason).

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
I sort of saw this coming, since there are 2 groups of people coming from different games/sims and converging on this one there are going to be fundamental disagreements on what people prefer in how the game feels.

In such cases, the golden rule has always been one (for GPB at least): trust Piboso's team :)

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
IMO the way MX Bikes is now is more similar to how MX Sim is with arcade mode enabled.  As it sits the bike is doing too much steering without my input.  When I notice that I am drifting left I steer right but it is doing its own thing and messes up what I have already done.  To be a Sim IMO it needs to rely more on user input and less on targeting a lean angle.  I don't really care how that happens I just need to take back more of the control from the computer. 

That's all good, until you try direct steer in GPB (track bikes on very flat surfaces) and realize that with no feedback it's just pure masochism (in GPB there's one single player that uses direct steer and by his own admission he does it for the sake of the challenge. After months and months, he still struggle to put a few laps together and his laptimes are like the ones of a 125cc vs a motogp at monza). In MXB, with a very uneven surface and much lower speed, it would be just impossible.

But if Piboso will provide the option in MXB (direct steer), you'll be able to see by yourself :)

MaX.

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 02, 2014, 11:02:48 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.

I agree, If piboso and Snappe are confident that they can make it work without non realistic forces they should stick to their plan.

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 02, 2014, 11:02:48 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.

Hehe ... these MX guys are not yet familiar with the Piboso attitude toward simulation :)

Get used to it guys, it's not gonna change. And that's a good thing.

MaX.

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 02, 2014, 11:23:00 PM

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 02, 2014, 11:02:48 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.

Hehe ... these MX guys are not yet familiar with the Piboso attitude toward simulation :)

Get used to it guys, it's not gonna change. And that's a good thing.

MaX.

I love PiBoSo's attitude =D

Same here! I only offer my feedback so that the simulation may improve in some way. It's essential to stay full on sim. This is the one that has the potential to change mx games/sims forever! Keep it up!

What setting makes my dude look ahead more, instead of staring at the fender.

Quote from: Dylan14 on October 03, 2014, 06:40:05 AM
What setting makes my dude look ahead more, instead of staring at the fender.

Pitch!

It looks great! but it sorta feels like im riding a gp bike on a mx track :/
I'm sure with future updates it will be much better but im not really having fun just yet (played over 5 hours and gave it an honest shot)
I think it has a lot of potential!

I tried out "Hardcore" mode today.  This is more like it!

MXS people need to try this out, its like the first day I downloaded MXS all over again.

Paste this into documents/Piboso/MX Bikes/profiles/"your profile"/profile.ini
[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=-30

If there was some logic in the game to know when to allow you to turn the bars more or less then I think it would work really well.  Also if the current "stabilizer" (sorry not sure if that is what you call it Piboso) helped you out depending on lean angle and stuff it would be exactly what I am looking for.

Its a pain to get out onto the track but the back 1/2 of the Practice Track is where it shines, nice flowing turns on those sweepers and way more control on the straights.

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 02:14:35 AM
I tried out "Hardcore" mode today.  This is more like it!

MXS people need to try this out, its like the first day I downloaded MXS all over again.

Paste this into documents/Piboso/MX Bikes/profiles/"your profile"/profile.ini

Code Select Expand

[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=-30

If there was some logic in the game to know when to allow you to turn the bars more or less then I think it would work really well.  Also if the current "stabilizer" (sorry not sure if that is what you call it Piboso) helped you out depending on lean angle and stuff it would be exactly what I am looking for.

Its a pain to get out onto the track but the back 1/2 of the Practice Track is where it shines, nice flowing turns on those sweepers and way more control on the straights.

;D ;D ;D ;D I just tried this and  I agree 100% that this is where mxb needs to be going!!
also thank to hornetmax for putting us onto this!!!
ive added direct steer 1 settings abd tweeked them a bit and its much smoother also try 100 linerality in lean for more consistent feel

everyone needs to try this!

[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=-32

[hardcore]
directsteer=1
directsteer_maxtorque=7
directsteer_maxtorque2=0.5


So would this force 1st person mode?

Quote from: al167 on October 04, 2014, 02:23:29 PM
ive added direct steer 1 settings abd tweeked them a bit and its much smoother also try 100 linerality in lean for more consistent feel

You can't have both settings (direct steer 1 and 2).
It's one or the other (if you put them both, likely only one of them is considered).

Linearity is 100% by default (no matter if you use direct steer 1 or, 2 direct lean on or off), so unless people have changed stuff, they are already on linearity 100%.

MaX.

hey max, it does seem to make a difference. they have different parameters for each. the -32 makes the steering reversed (like how most people use it in mxs)
is there any other parameters that you know of similar to this? also whats directsteer_maxtorque2=0.5 controlling?
Ive played with all the settings that much I wouldn't know what was default! lol


cheers allan

Quote from: al167 on October 04, 2014, 04:19:36 PM
hey max, it does seem to make a difference. they have different parameters for each. the -32 makes the steering reversed (like how most people use it in mxs)
is there any other parameters that you know of similar to this? also whats directsteer_maxtorque2=0.5 controlling?
Ive played with all the settings that much I wouldn't know what was default! lol


cheers allan

For direct steer 1 (angle):
[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=-32

maxangle is the maximum steering angle. If you set it to a negative value, you invert the input (i.e. stick to the left, handlebars to the right).

For direct steer 2 (torque):
[hardcore]
directsteer=1
directsteer_maxtorque=7
directsteer_maxtorque2=0.5
maxtorque is the maximum torque applied to the handlebars. If you set it to a negative value, you invert the input (i.e. stick to the left, handlebars to the right).
maxtorque2 is a factor that makes the maxtorque vary with speed.

For GPB: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.msg42#msg42 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.msg42#msg42)

In any case, you don't use both, it's one or the other.

MaX.

Quote from: gdubmx on October 04, 2014, 02:27:42 PM
So would this force 1st person mode?

No.

Forcing 1st person view is a server side option, nothing to do with the "hardcore" section in the .ini file.

MaX.

Thanks max, looking forward to trying this out later :)

Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 07:45:32 PM
Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

How do you even keep up with DirectSteer? It feels nothing like mxs to me :p All i do is fall over.

Quote from: Midbeck on October 04, 2014, 08:33:19 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 07:45:32 PM
Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

How do you even keep up with DirectSteer? It feels nothing like mxs to me :p All i do is fall over.

Well its definitely extreme because there is no stabilizer at all.  I don't know exactly how it works in MXS but all those parameters in the Advanced Stability are there to help the rider keep the bike from just falling over.  In MXB with Direct Steer enabled you have to countersteer constantly to keep the bike from falling all the way over but if the "non-hardcore" stabilizer helped it would be similar to MXS.

If we could set a mix between the 2 so that the stabilizer would only help keep the bike up but not stand it up straight that would probably be a decent attempt for right now but IDK if Piboso is interested in working on "Hardcore Mode" he seems more fond of the regular mode.

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 09:16:35 PM

Quote from: Midbeck on October 04, 2014, 08:33:19 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 07:45:32 PM
Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

How do you even keep up with DirectSteer? It feels nothing like mxs to me :p All i do is fall over.

Well its definitely extreme because there is no stabilizer at all.  I don't know exactly how it works in MXS but all those parameters in the Advanced Stability are there to help the rider keep the bike from just falling over.  In MXB with Direct Steer enabled you have to countersteer constantly to keep the bike from falling all the way over but if the "non-hardcore" stabilizer helped it would be similar to MXS.

If we could set a mix between the 2 so that the stabilizer would only help keep the bike up but not stand it up straight that would probably be a decent attempt for right now but IDK if Piboso is interested in working on "Hardcore Mode" he seems more fond of the regular mode.

There is no more work to do on the hardcore modes, except tuning of the torque for mode 2.
Unless you want external, fake, forces to keep the bike from falling, that are out of the question.

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 04, 2014, 09:19:55 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 09:16:35 PM

Quote from: Midbeck on October 04, 2014, 08:33:19 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 07:45:32 PM
Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

How do you even keep up with DirectSteer? It feels nothing like mxs to me :p All i do is fall over.

Well its definitely extreme because there is no stabilizer at all.  I don't know exactly how it works in MXS but all those parameters in the Advanced Stability are there to help the rider keep the bike from just falling over.  In MXB with Direct Steer enabled you have to countersteer constantly to keep the bike from falling all the way over but if the "non-hardcore" stabilizer helped it would be similar to MXS.

If we could set a mix between the 2 so that the stabilizer would only help keep the bike up but not stand it up straight that would probably be a decent attempt for right now but IDK if Piboso is interested in working on "Hardcore Mode" he seems more fond of the regular mode.

There is no more work to do on the hardcore modes, except tuning of the torque for mode 2.
Unless you want external, fake, forces to keep the bike from falling, that are out of the question.

"Hehe ... these MX guys are not yet familiar with the Piboso attitude toward simulation :)

Get used to it guys, it's not gonna change. And that's a good thing."

No wait .. deja vu ?  ;D

MaX.

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 04, 2014, 09:19:55 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 09:16:35 PM

Quote from: Midbeck on October 04, 2014, 08:33:19 PM

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 07:45:32 PM
Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

How do you even keep up with DirectSteer? It feels nothing like mxs to me :p All i do is fall over.

Well its definitely extreme because there is no stabilizer at all.  I don't know exactly how it works in MXS but all those parameters in the Advanced Stability are there to help the rider keep the bike from just falling over.  In MXB with Direct Steer enabled you have to countersteer constantly to keep the bike from falling all the way over but if the "non-hardcore" stabilizer helped it would be similar to MXS.

If we could set a mix between the 2 so that the stabilizer would only help keep the bike up but not stand it up straight that would probably be a decent attempt for right now but IDK if Piboso is interested in working on "Hardcore Mode" he seems more fond of the regular mode.

There is no more work to do on the hardcore modes, except tuning of the torque for mode 2.
Unless you want external, fake, forces to keep the bike from falling, that are out of the question.

What I am hoping for is some sort of combination between the automated balancing that is done in the non hardcore mode and the non existent balancing in hardcore mode.  Basically if moving the steer stick adjusted the target lean angle and stayed at that new angle if no more input was made (stick centered) or something like that.

This is without the use of any external fake forces, just changing how and when the computer helps the user balance with the already implemented balancing you have developed.

But hey it is your sim, you can do as you wish.

Hmm ... rewording properly, I guess what bearded4glory is asking is a mode where the stick position dictates a "target lean rate" instead of a "target lean angle".
This means: the more you push the stick to the right, the quicker the bike leans to the right. When you center the stick, the bike keeps the current lean.

I don't think it's less noble than the current target lean, even if for sure it's not any "purer" (pure = direct steer).
What I don't know is if it is any better. Could be interesting to try.

MaX.

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 04, 2014, 10:37:38 PM
Hmm ... rewording properly, I guess what bearded4glory is asking is a mode where the stick position dictates a "target lean rate" instead of a "target lean angle".
This means: the more you push the stick to the right, the quicker the bike leans to the right. When you center the stick, the bike keeps the current lean.

I don't think it's less noble than the current target lean, even if for sure it's not any "purer" (pure = direct steer).
What I don't know is if it is any better. Could be interesting to try.

MaX.

If this is what bearded4glory suggests, it will be added in Beta2.

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 04, 2014, 10:37:38 PM
Hmm ... rewording properly, I guess what bearded4glory is asking is a mode where the stick position dictates a "target lean rate" instead of a "target lean angle".
This means: the more you push the stick to the right, the quicker the bike leans to the right. When you center the stick, the bike keeps the current lean.

I don't think it's less noble than the current target lean, even if for sure it's not any "purer" (pure = direct steer).
What I don't know is if it is any better. Could be interesting to try.

MaX.

Yea, I mean something where you could have a % of hardcore mode mixed with the "stock" mode is sort of what I am looking for.  There would be parameters (behind the scenes or adjustable up to dev team) that control how user input is used and when to help balance the bike.  The idea is to get the feeling of counter steering the bike to bring it upright after a turn without having to balance it for a desired lean angle.

I guess my feeling (and the feeling of a lot of people who have commented elsewhere) is that it feels too "arcadey".  While the behind the scenes simulation may be more complicated than other comparable games or sims the user does not experience much of that.  Lots of us are looking for a more challenging sim with more user input required to make a clean lap.  I don't necessarily want it to be perfect at holding a lean angle but require me to make corrections at the same time.  Hardcore mode is more similar to what I am looking for vs. non hardcore mode its just very hard to control at low speeds aninkd in tight corners so some help there would make it perfect.  In a pinch I think I could probably learn it given enough time, in the hour or so I have played with it I have made probably 1/2 a clean lap on the Practice track and I am not going to be the best rider so I bet there are people that could easily do a full lap.

Its hard to say exactly how to accomplish this, obviously I am under qualified for the job or I would have already done it and made millions.  Maybe a max steering angle of correction based on bike speed would be something to look into.  Then the user would still need to make corrections but the bike would try to stay upright to an extent.

Piboso, I am sorry if I have given you the wrong impression about me.  I am not being critical of you or your methods I am just trying to give my feedback on how I think the sim could be improved as far as the user experience.  It really comes alive when you remove all the assists and turn on hardcore mode but maybe I am not quite hardcore enough for that.

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 04, 2014, 10:37:38 PM
When you center the stick, the bike keeps the current lean.

MaX.

This is what I want  ;D

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 04, 2014, 10:44:36 PM

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 04, 2014, 10:37:38 PM
Hmm ... rewording properly, I guess what bearded4glory is asking is a mode where the stick position dictates a "target lean rate" instead of a "target lean angle".
This means: the more you push the stick to the right, the quicker the bike leans to the right. When you center the stick, the bike keeps the current lean.

I don't think it's less noble than the current target lean, even if for sure it's not any "purer" (pure = direct steer).
What I don't know is if it is any better. Could be interesting to try.

MaX.

If this is what bearded4glory suggests, it will be added in Beta2.

perfect!!

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 11:00:34 PM
Yea, I mean something where you could have a % of hardcore mode mixed with the "stock" mode is sort of what I am looking for.  There would be parameters (behind the scenes or adjustable up to dev team) that control how user input is used and when to help balance the bike.  The idea is to get the feeling of counter steering the bike to bring it upright after a turn without having to balance it for a desired lean angle.

The only way to get a feeling of counter steering is to use direct steering (torque or angle).

The suggestion I made after your comment (target lean rate) will not leave counter steering in your hands. However it would have the property "stick in the middle = the bike holds the current lean angle". It's definitely not "a % of hardcore mode mixed with the "stock" mode, but allows to have what you're looking for in terms of stick behaviour with the "virtual rider' taking care of the bike stability (as in the default mode).

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 04, 2014, 11:00:34 PM
I guess my feeling (and the feeling of a lot of people who have commented elsewhere) is that it feels too "arcadey".  While the behind the scenes simulation may be more complicated than other comparable games or sims the user does not experience much of that.  Lots of us are looking for a more challenging sim with more user input required to make a clean lap.

Just my opinion, but that's a bad approach: the difficulty in running a bike in real life is not due to the control method, it's due to the bike physics. It's like saying that riding a bike with two buttons instead of a handlebar is better because it's more challenging.

Quote from: geofanatec on October 04, 2014, 11:25:12 PM
I just want to play the way it is meant to be played, lol. No reason to make this control like mxs......just play mxs.

So pib (or max) is the default game the intended game? Or is this hardcore mode (havent tried) a more pure solution?

The hardcore mode (direct steer torque and angle) are the purest solutions, with direct steer torque being even purer than direct steer angle.
However, they are not well suited to the usual input devices (joypads or even steering wheels with force feedback) and of course the fact that you miss a lot of physical feedback (not being on a real ike) makes it worse.
Historically direct steer has been introduced in GPB later on, upon request from some users (including me) but more as a curiosity than anything else.
I'd say TWIMTBP is the regular mode, not the direct steer mode. But the "target lean rate" mode could be seen as a variation of the regular mode and may make sense, at least to some.

MaX.

Quote from: geofanatec on October 05, 2014, 12:19:35 AM
Ok ,.....im stupid. Twimtbp?

The Way It's Meant To Be Played :)

A silly nvidia marketing gimmick of a while ago, not sure the original poster was aware of it.

Quote from: geofanatec on October 05, 2014, 12:19:35 AM
Edit: what do u play max? Regular? Just curious.....or do u play? I know gp is where your heart is 8)

I play a little MXB (still have to put together a lap without falling). In MXB as in GPB, I'm a regular (no direct steer) with direct lean on (which is not so usual for GPB), on an xbox pad (one, but also have a 360). But I'm by no mean a reference player (neither in GPB nor in MXB), for sure. I do like to chit-chat about physics and tech stuff however.

I'm mostly curious as MXB is technically way more challenging than GPB for Piboso.

MaX.

Hey max did you say you have a setting to keep the ride from automatically centering? You said stick in middle position holds the current lean angle. Definitely need to know how to do this.

Honestly, I feel like the game is so on point. It feels so much like real life on the ground. Only things that I can criticize is no backup button (I guess reset is okay but I like backup more) and how weird is it to steer at slow speeds. Also, I wish that we can lean into the jump more without falling over, like all the way over so we can actually scrub and bring the bike back. Other than that the game feels perfect, it's so easy to play if you think about how to ride in real life. (unless you suck in real life too haha)

Quote from: Ehm24 on October 05, 2014, 07:32:19 AM
no backup button (I guess reset is okay but I like backup more)

take a look at the settings. under the input 2 tab below Controls, theres low speed. default is L and O on the keyboard.

I agree ehm.. I never got past 80cc when I was younger and thats going back 17 years or so, but I used to love tearing around our two local quarries and it feels the closest to that out of all the mx games / sim... Got a real feeling of on the edge of control when you're trying to be fast

Quote from: geofanatec on October 05, 2014, 01:21:17 AM
Ya mxb is challenging. Prob more than gpb (easier to keep on ground than air 😃)

Even on the ground, MXB is more challenging due to the terrain-tire interaction, non-flat terrain surface, terrain deformation ...

Quote from: geofanatec on October 05, 2014, 01:21:17 AM
So u use direct lean? Thought that was only for steering wheels?

I think Piboso originally meant Direct Lean for (quote) "high precision input devices" (i.e. proper joysticks and wheels) and I know that in his definition a joypad (even a good one) does not fall under that category (he once stated he plays with direct lean off).

What bothers me with direct lean off is that your input is strongly filtered, especially in the release phase. Do this (easier with GPB): bike vertical, pull fully to the right: the bike will lean right pretty quickly, that's fine. Now with the bike leant right, move your stick to the middle: the bike will go vertical, but very slowly. So slowly that normally to pick the bike up you need to pull the stick left. This thing just annoys me. But again, the vast majority of GPB players (and for sure practically all the fast ones) use direct lean off.

Quote from: onlyonetone on October 05, 2014, 03:31:28 AM
Hey max did you say you have a setting to keep the ride from automatically centering? You said stick in middle position holds the current lean angle. Definitely need to know how to do this.

At the moment it's not possible, it was only a suggestion to answer what bearded4glory was requesting.
Piboso commented that if the thing has an interest, he may introduce it in beta2.

MaX.

Quote from: MXK_cdub85 on October 05, 2014, 07:44:52 AM

Quote from: Ehm24 on October 05, 2014, 07:32:19 AM
no backup button (I guess reset is okay but I like backup more)

take a look at the settings. under the input 2 tab below Controls, theres low speed. default is L and O on the keyboard.

Oh sweet, thanks man!

When ever I use L/R lean I get this

http://www.youtube.com/v/Iuf2b9wkZR4

Haahaha oh man, I watched the whole video lol  ::)  :D

I always wash out my front tire, and it just doesnt happen as much in real life. I can lean my bike down pretty far without even losing a little traction. The whiplash with the bars after you hit a bump is so insane, you get a little sideways in the whoops and you lose the bike. I love the game and know it will only get better, thanks for the addiction!

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 04, 2014, 10:44:36 PM

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 04, 2014, 10:37:38 PMHmm ... rewording properly, I guess what bearded4glory is asking is a mode where the stick position dictates a "target lean rate" instead of a "target lean angle".
This means: the more you push the stick to the right, the quicker the bike leans to the right. When you center the stick, the bike keeps the current lean.

I don't think it's less noble than the current target lean, even if for sure it's not any "purer" (pure = direct steer).
What I don't know is if it is any better. Could be interesting to try.

MaX.

If this is what bearded4glory suggests, it will be added in Beta2.

Hey PiBoSo, has this been added? How can I set this?