I know that a lot of you are still using stock setup and often ask for mines. I think it's time to give all my "secrets"... (lol) we have all we need to know how suspension works. (thanks to Geo and Gdub <3) But i think that the most important thing were forgotten. Testing workflow.
Here is what i learned.
We are just going to speak about suspension setup here but just for you to know, here is my general setup.
- Im riding the helmet cam
- Direct lean 100%
- All advanced setting stock (i'm using the Xbox one Elite controller and i have a great feeling and control of all my triggers and analogs soo... go check Geo's tutorial if you need help here.)
- Field of view 100
- tilt 25%
- pitch 20%
- no corner anticipation
- stability help 75%
- All riding help disabled
Testing workflow:
1) SAG and Spring Rate:
First of all, before even hitting the track for the first time, you have to set your SAG. The race sag (rider sag) is the distance that the rear end of the bike settles when on the ground and under the load of the rider's weight. The static sag (free sag) is the distance that the rear end of the bike settles when on the ground, but only under the load of its own weight (no rider).
You want your race sag to be at 100mm (+/-10) at the rear, and 70mm (+/-5) at the front. (For supercross, it's better to set your sag at 60mm at the front.)
Your Static sag have to be around 30 (+/-10) at both ends.
To reach thoses values, you have to tweak your spring rate and preload button until you have it.
Now you can go on the track.
2) Setting the suspensions for the track.
Once your sag is set, (much better allready huh ?) i recommand to ride the track at least 15 or 20 laps with 10 or 12 at bump and rebound (rear and front) and stock oil level. This way you will be very familiar with the bike and the track and it will be much easier to see by your laptimes if you are really improving you setup or if you're just learning the track... ^^
Then you can start to tweak each setting, one by one and run 4 or 5 laps and see if you are faster or not.
Bump --> it's the compression damping. Higher the value is, stiffer your fork will be.
Rebound --> release, or rebound damping. Higher the value is, slower the suspension will deploy.
You have to change thoses values one by one to really feel the difference.
You can up or down by 2 cliks each time. It's hard to feel a real difference with one clik. (8 to 10 for the fork bump for exemple)
Fork oil level --> fuck this shit. ... Jk. Higher the value is, stiffer the fork will be at the end of his run. i use 110mm in MX and 120mm in SX. (not really familiar with this one yet...)
On a nice and smooth track, you can use a soft setup. You need traction as much as you can have. Be careful at some big jump reception, and if you are pushing too hard in a turn with a too soft fork... you will finish the trun on your teeths. I usually have a stiffer front end than rear end on smooth and fast tracks. And you can set your rebound around 12 without thinking too much...
With deformation, or on a rough track it's not the same deal. Bumb/Rebound combo is really important, it's how the suspension will "read" the track. If it's too slow or too fast, the suspension won't have the time to travel all the way around bumps. in results ? loose of traction, sideways kicks and noob braking... or even fall. And it will also feel unsafe in turns.
There is no secret. Training and dedication are the keys. Your bike have to make love with the track. It's all about compromise. the perfect setup is in the perfect 50% grey area. And it's different for each track. Time and dedication are your allies. it's not easy at the beginning but it's not THAT hard neither...
And don't hesitate to take notes.
A big thanks to Geo, Gdub and Asdrael for all your tutos. I hope this will finish to complete them.
PS: I know that my english is very bad and it would be very appriciated if someone could correct me...
Hope it'll help <3
Thanks alot stone, this is what we always needed! Will help alot of people for sure. me included! thanks again
Yea, Stone! Thank you!
Just what I needed! Thank you very much Stone rider.
Already gaining in confidence rather than floundering about like a beached flounder :o
lol.. apparently I am #newb
Even with the guide I can't seem to get both front and rear to set race sag to 100/70. (+/-)
I can get the front or rear but not both to sit right
Quote from: BadStar on January 09, 2017, 05:53:12 PM
lol.. apparently I am #newb
Even with the guide I can't seem to get both front and rear to set race sag to 100/70. (+/-)
I can get the front or rear but not both to sit right
First use preload to set sag. If you run out of adjustments then you have to change the spring stiffness to give you more preload range. For a higher number sag use a softer spring and lower sag number use a harder spring.
Quote from: BadStar on January 09, 2017, 05:53:12 PM
lol.. apparently I am #newb
Even with the guide I can't seem to get both front and rear to set race sag to 100/70. (+/-)
I can get the front or rear but not both to sit right
I take it you are using the RMZ? i tried and it doesnt actually set like stone described either mate.
Thanks gdub, that's it!
and wedge, thx that helps with order of operations :)
Quote from: gdubmx on January 09, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
Quote from: BadStar on January 09, 2017, 05:53:12 PM
lol.. apparently I am #newb
Even with the guide I can't seem to get both front and rear to set race sag to 100/70. (+/-)
I can get the front or rear but not both to sit right
I take it you are using the RMZ? i tried and it doesnt actually set like stone described either mate.
To set the sag for the 2016 RMZ250 set the front preload to 4mm as the only front adjustments and set the rear spring to 48 with 0mm preload. The actual amount of mm's used for preload is irrelevant and and will vary depending on which spring is used. With this adjustment my rear spring choice leaves no room to increase rear sag beyond 100mm as my preload is at O, however an even softer spring will allow for further preload adjustments. An example with this setup is with rear spring set to 48 and preload at 0 I get 100mm sag, if I soften the rear spring with a 45 than I can use preload setting 2 to get the same 100mm rear sag.
Thx, Wedge. Plenty of info to help me!
Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Are we sure about the sag tho? I seem to remember b3/4 had decent sag values stock for the stock bike. In b5 however, it's off. Is it because suspensions got changed and not the stock settings, or is sag now measured differently?
Quote from: Asdrael on January 23, 2017, 04:17:44 PM
Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Are we sure about the sag tho? I seem to remember b3/4 had decent sag values stock for the stock bike. In b5 however, it's off. Is it because suspensions got changed and not the stock settings, or is sag now measured differently?
70/100 race sag AND 30/30 free sag is the best for 250 and 450 yeah. this is IRL values. you can find it on every IRL suspensions tutorial and too me... it's pretty obvious when you try it. make a lap in stock and then just set you sag, retry and you tell me.
Yeah I know about IRL sag values. I was just saying that it seems that those values changed in game between b4 and b5 if I remember correctly, for a stock bike with stock settings. Hence my question: did the suspension change cause this, or have the way the measurement is made changed?
Where can I see the sag amount on the suspension page?
Quote from: Asdrael on January 23, 2017, 05:19:15 PM
or have the way the measurement is made changed?
i don't get it. it can't change..
Quote from: oblitz1 on January 25, 2017, 10:21:33 PM
Where can I see the sag amount on the suspension page?
you go in test man.
Got it - Thanks for the help.
Great tutorial man! You helped me a lot getting into the game ;)
Huge Help thanks man
i'm glad it helps you guys :)
Yeah, finally found this useful topic...
Thanks Stone!
First I learned the game, as basic it comes. Learned physics etc.
The I setup SAG - this was helping me huge time - removes this bounce that the game comes with :)
BUT, this is was not it. Some track I can't ride till that day. Over steering corners and on a rough track damn bounce comes back...
Soo now I can understand a BIT how to start setting my bike up.
Once again thanks!
So how outdated is this tutorial now since we're in what Beta 14e I think and Asdrael had some new help with tunning the suspension this time around from Bryan Haskell (who I believe I raced in the 30+ Class in SX futures). Just curious because the suspension always seems to change with major updates like going to Beta14 or having 2 new OEM packs. I don't really understand how it all works in this game because some settings don't match up to real-life settings or just ae not in real life at all? Don't get me wrong all the bikes and suspension are absolutely amazing I have never played any Moto game with such real bikes but without knowing the proper way to tune them we are not using them to their full capabilities!
This did help then, not sure about now though as the suspension, at least on the last 2 OEM releases, is much much better without any changes.
Quote from: oblitz1 on January 25, 2017, 10:21:33 PMWhere can I see the sag amount on the suspension page?
You should be able to find it in the bottom right of your 'garage' page, in between info and done, (i.e back to pits>garage>testing). It took me an embarrassing amount of time to figure this out, so I hope this helps.
Quote from: StoneRider on January 23, 2017, 05:11:47 PMQuote from: Asdrael on January 23, 2017, 04:17:44 PMThanks for taking the time to write this.
Are we sure about the sag tho? I seem to remember b3/4 had decent sag values stock for the stock bike. In b5 however, it's off. Is it because suspensions got changed and not the stock settings, or is sag now measured differently?
70/100 race sag AND 30/30 free sag is the best for 250 and 450 yeah. this is IRL values. you can find it on every IRL suspensions tutorial and too me... it's pretty obvious when you try it. make a lap in stock and then just set you sag, retry and you tell me.
First, I just wanted to say thank you, as a beginner tuning was intimidating as hell, but this tutorial actually gave me really good insight and made the game so much more playable, and getting started on tuning my 2021 yz250f felt a lot smoother around the edges. However, I was wondering about the exactness of the 70/100 and 30/30 thing... I tried and tried but could not get the exact numbers. I could get either 70/100 or 30/30, but could not get both together. But, I did notice the (+/- 10) next to the numbers; does this mean you can stray +10 or -10 away without too many problems? How close to these numbers should I shoot for? Thanks again for the tutorial, and I hope you do well in the future!
I started checking Racetech.com spring rate search after I learned Moto Joe's weight is 176 lbs... You can "calculate spring rate" after selecting any of mx bike's models, and even select for MX or SX. I typically ride CRs and RaceTech recommends slightly stiffer springs than the OEMS are set. It also recommends sag settings, which isn't always at 100, but more like 106.
having said that, after growing up with my dad setting sag at 100 in the rear and knowing that figure for bout 30 years, idk why I haven't applied it in game... maybe its because the ole man never mentioned a "front sag" setting or how to change it IRL.
Now, ima have to try the RaceTech recommended spring rates with the whole 70/100 thing and see how that feels! Love this game!