Hello Pib and Snappe, great game so far! Just have a few problems with physics:
- In-air control of bike seems to not be present. I can whip but can not bring it back.
- The bars in-air move a little too quick for a realistic characteristic.
- Steering force is way too quick at slower speeds and I have serious trouble getting up a hill I fall on.
Other than that the game is off to a great start!
What is force feedback and can we adjust it. To me it seems like it wants to level the rider out to much. Same as the leveling on mx sim
Force feedback is controller vibration mate.
Quote from: gdubmx on October 02, 2014, 08:21:57 AM
Force feedback is controller vibration mate.
No, force feedback is ... well, force feedback. If you have a wheel (like a g25/27) you can have force feedback.
On a joypad, at most you have the rumble (vibration) but MXB does not support this.
MaX.
Oh ok thanks bud. I thought it had to do with friction. I think that is the problem with jumping and whipping is it thinks your still on the ground and the leveling obviously
Quote from: PDR on October 02, 2014, 05:47:13 AM
Hello Pib and Snappe, great game so far! Just have a few problems with physics:
- In-air control of bike seems to not be present. I can whip but can not bring it back.
- The bars in-air move a little too quick for a realistic characteristic.
- Steering force is way too quick at slower speeds and I have serious trouble getting up a hill I fall on.
Other than that the game is off to a great start!
We are well aware of these problems. Steering / bike stability and air control will be improved in time and subsequent betas!
Anyone care to analyse the forces involved in a whip?
I think the main thing to consider is the bike wants to straighten itself out after being put into a whip..
but I don't ride, just going off other games and videos of people explaining how to whip.. that's all I got :-X
Quote from: Snappe on October 02, 2014, 03:14:27 PM
Anyone care to analyse the forces involved in a whip?
Snappe, do you mean like how do the bars move and what does the rider do in assisting a the bike? TheFatController is right too, the bike does what to straighten itself out but that is not a massive effect. It is mainly which way the bars are going. The rider would shift his weight on the lip of the jump to get the bike going in a sideways motion and when the bars are turned back in the opposite direction the bike starts to center itself.
This video can give you somewhat of an idea by studying their motions when they whip.
https://www.youtube.com/v/uGWs-MGEAUo
https://www.youtube.com/v/cr7NV0wplIc
not even joking, watched this in my early days of whipping and i suppose how i learnt haha.
not sure if its what you want snap but thats a whip haha.
Yeah I've studied a lot of best whip videos, and I've watched the Carmichael video a bunch of times too :-)
Might have to look into footpeg forces.
i would look at the moto guys such as RC in the video posted above, brett cue has some amazing vids on the motosport youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/MotoSportInc/playlists.
The main factors in initiating and controlling the whip are leg grip and the natural gyro of the wheels and motor rotating. The legs are mostly applying force near the ankle, where your boots are contacting the frame. Then you also are using the gyro effect of the rear wheel to your advantage. When initiating your basic whip, the take off angle, speed, body position all have a huge effect on how the bike will respond in the air. Another force to consider is the rotational inertia of the motor components. If you approach a jump while in an incorrect gear with it producing too many rpms, the whip will behave more erratically and may do the dreaded "double whip" motion. Not good. . Now, that's typical, every whip requires something unique that comes second nature unfortunately. I tried explaining the best I could. My experience comes from 23 years riding/racing 9 of those in the A classes. Still goin strong in 25+ A and 450 A ;D
Quote from: MXK_cdub85 on October 02, 2014, 05:41:09 PM
The main factors in initiating and controlling the whip are leg grip and the natural gyro of the wheels and motor rotating. The legs are mostly applying force near the ankle, where your boots are contacting the frame. Then you also are using the gyro effect of the rear wheel to your advantage. When initiating your basic whip, the take off angle, speed, body position all have a huge effect on how the bike will respond in the air. Another force to consider is the rotational inertia of the motor components. If you approach a jump while in an incorrect gear with it producing too many rpms, the whip will behave more erratically and may do the dreaded "double whip" motion. Not good. . Now, that's typical, every whip requires something unique that comes second nature unfortunately. I tried explaining the best I could. My experience comes from 23 years riding/racing 9 of those in the A classes. Still goin strong in 25+ A and 450 A ;D
Hmmm .. I don't see what you mean with "Another force to consider is the rotational inertia of the motor components".
As far as I can see, the rotating engine components (mainly the crankshaft) have two impacts: 1, the gyro effect (just like the wheels, assuming the crankshaft is forward rotating, which should be the case for mx bikes I guess) and 2, the torque reaction (a forward rotating crankshaft helps wheelies, a backward one counter them). I'd tend to think only the 1st is relevant in our discussion.
So yes, the rotating inertia counts, but only because it affects the gyro effect, not because there's another effect on top of it.
MaX.
I'm not as well versed in physics as id like, though i like to pretend i am lol. I got caught up in the novel i wrote and forgot i had already mentioned gyro. Tried my best to get the thoughts out. Thanks for pointing that out.
Quote from: MXK_cdub85 on October 02, 2014, 10:15:11 PM
I'm not as well versed in physics as id like, though i like to pretend i am lol. I got caught up in the novel i wrote and forgot i had already mentioned gyro. Tried my best to get the thoughts out. Thanks for pointing that out.
For an experienced rider, your understanding of physics is surely above the average I'd say.
Now let's talk abut my riding skills (which are close to zero for road bikes, never even tried a cross bike) :)
MaX.
Yes another thing would be sence you can lean forward back left and right off the lip you should be able to lean your guy to make yourself do a whip
Yea lean the whole body from legs to head not just the shoulders
I have seen a lot of people asking about whipping so here's my opinion.
I know what I am about to say is going to become very unpopular, but so far I've enjoyed not logging on to a server and see people whip everywhere. I have spent a lot of time practicing whipping it ingame, and that resulted in me being able to do a few small, but awesome-feeling scrubs. The keyword here is practice. Whipping in real life is not easy, and mostly it's only pro (or highly skilled) riders whipping it left and right. What I'm concluding (I guess) is that whipping in a simulation shouldn't be easy, as it isn't in real life. I'd love to be able to whip, but I'd love to be able to have to practice to master it. Not just "press 'X' to do a whip, press 'O' to do a scrub"
If you look at MXS, the whips look horribly unnatural and you can do some crazy looking whips where your head is basically upside down. That seems to have become the standard, so now everyone is whipping unnaturally everywhere.
Just my humble opinion.
Thank you for reading.
yes but fangel the reason mxsim whips are ugly are because the rider models and how they are positioned, they dont look realistic but its not easy to whip in mxsim and you have to practice alot to be able to do a whip/scrub and i feel like mxsim have whips down pretty well. the bike comes back naturally. just the rider never keeps his head straight he is stuck to the bike and so thats why he goes upside down.
Quote from: daffernn on October 04, 2014, 11:08:57 PM
yes but fangel the reason mxsim whips are ugly are because the rider models and how they are positioned, they dont look realistic but its not easy to whip in mxsim and you have to practice alot to be able to do a whip/scrub and i feel like mxsim have whips down pretty well. the bike comes back naturally. just the rider never keeps his head straight he is stuck to the bike and so thats why he goes upside down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXYUhR6tbk
Here is an example of what I mean. How on earth would that be possible? :)
Its incredibly too easy to whip on mxs. I've gotten some decent whips down on mxb now. I'm going to post some tomorrow.
the thing with sim is once you practice, whipping is predictable you know how the bike will react, in mxbikes its a matter of trying to whip and getting lucky. i want to see someone whips alot in one race and send me the demo of it. these videos of people whipping on mxb will just be little clips on when they got it correct not being able to do them consistantly.
There's no real point in commenting on whipping in MXB right now: as admitted by Piboso/Snappe, in-air control of the bike is a known point to be improved.
Personally I'd be fairly happy even if whip were not possible at all (but if in-air control was good).
MaX.
well motocross and supercross are know for each rider to have their own style. id like that in the simulator i play too. real life you have the riders that dont move much (ryan villopoto) and the rider that throws it around (james stewart/ken roczen) it makes for good entertainment and it looks sick as fuck. each style has advantages and disadvantages.
Well guys, first of all, in MXS, the whip is made BEFORE the jump and in air you only have to bring it back by the gyro force.. After you got the correct gravity low in your game, the whip will be all about the riding style. But keep in your head that a whip and anyway a Jump, is made before wheels leave the floor and in my opinion gaz and brake arn't good in MXB yet.