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Mods => Track Editing => Topic started by: philiaN on October 31, 2017, 06:08:29 AM

Title: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on October 31, 2017, 06:08:29 AM
BETA v01 - WIP

Downloadlink: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwkVCs_TRhy5bm84TTJBa1VJbHM

https://www.youtube.com/v/V6DpOrQJ8EE
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Clutch_Luck on October 31, 2017, 09:14:49 PM
Hey philiaN that link sent me to the correct download but I had to download twice. The first download was a 1.47mb EXE file. I thought that was pretty sketchy so I used Avast to scan it and it was malware. The second file was legit but someone who isn't paying attention could easily have installed that.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on October 31, 2017, 10:17:25 PM
Yeah you need to start uploading on googledrive or dropbox mate.

On to the track - it's really good. Almost everything flows nicely. A few comments:
- I feel like the base layout (hills etc) should be higher, are you sure you didn't mess up the scaling there?
- Some ruts are too low and don't grab your tires at all. I think people will avoid those and it won't generate any deformation. Others are perfectly fine though.
- The longest triple (not really uphill) has a wierd kick. You might want to revise the take off (at 5:00 in your video).
- there is a downhill that currently has like two rollers, before you go uphill and then take a left to the former finish table. Normally, you could double those from the outside line but it's currently impossible (video, 5:20)
- I think you are missing 2 rollers in the rollers section?

But great job, good start on this one. I like the semi-roughness ;)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Heathen on October 31, 2017, 11:07:20 PM
Played the track for a bit, to me it felt realy good with the 250F(cant say anything about the 450F dont ride it yet), except for that one damn tripple that i cant seem to make it over, but im new to the game so, other then that cant wait for the full version to come out! great job

#46
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 01, 2017, 12:41:15 AM
Its now on google drive! Sorry i thought that file-upload is malware free :/ Never had the .exe download

Quote- I feel like the base layout (hills etc) should be higher, are you sure you didn't mess up the scaling there?

It should be correct but i will check it again

Quote- Some ruts are too low and don't grab your tires at all. I think people will avoid those and it won't generate any deformation. Others are perfectly fine though.

The ruts are at a super early state (v02, just corrected once the opacity) :D but i quite liked them. so it was good enough for the beta. i want that some ruts are more like "little helpers" they wont give you too much grip - but will help you to get your line.

Quote- The longest triple (not really uphill) has a wierd kick. You might want to revise the take off (at 5:00 in your video).

Yes i know that it has a weird kick :D it's like the v10 of it and still not like i want it, but it helps if you try some different suspension settings.

Quote- there is a downhill that currently has like two rollers, before you go uphill and then take a left to the former finish table. Normally, you could double those from the outside line but it's currently impossible (video, 5:20)

Ohh, ok i thought the whole time that its impossible to jump it :D But at 7:20 it's clear that it can be done :) I will change it!
Quote
- I think you are missing 2 rollers in the rollers section?

Actually its 4 "big" rollers and then on the straight there are 4 "small and wider" rollers

Quoteexcept for that one damn tripple that i cant seem to make it over

Yea, dont know if that is possible to jump on a 250 :/ havent saw any 250 footage - but even the some pros on the 450 aren't jumping it. so i guess its super hard on the 250
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 01, 2017, 01:06:42 AM
I just found out that you can "triple" the jump at 12:48

So i will redo this again :)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 01, 2017, 06:23:49 AM
beta 02 uploaded
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 07:46:32 AM
In first post Phil?
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 01, 2017, 07:55:35 AM
Yea
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 09:00:52 AM
Ok go to home right Now and give it a try in 15 minutes
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 09:31:02 AM
Think the elevations changes are a little flat phill and the big step up seems to be more deeper on the bottom and the jump more higher
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 09:33:00 AM
And the triple step up before the finish too but good work at all phill
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 09:36:50 AM
https://youtu.be/EhVubWNLqps take a look
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 10:34:00 AM
Sorry um talking about the other big jump Next to the jump oficial 7.10
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 10:37:48 AM
But no problem at all the track its awesome keep good work phill
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 01, 2017, 10:41:20 AM
Oficial 8) sorry thats my fault .....i Said next jump of that at 7.10
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Heathen on November 01, 2017, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: Bj Slice on November 01, 2017, 10:18:30 AM
at 7:10 in Phil's video (first post), it doesn't look like it's a tripple in game. The 3rd small jump of that tripple is farther forward, thus impossible to tripple in game. At 8:10 Phil's first video, that tripple is doable for a 250 in game shown in my video below.


That was the trippel i were talking about, i see that you made it up there, still alittle sketchy tho. but as i said my corner speed is not up to par with you guys as im fairly fresh so.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 01, 2017, 12:05:07 PM
Tried v2.

Most ruts are better and most jumps too, goo djob.

- I don't get the ruts before the "mound" in front of the roller section, in the left turn. They are wierdly placed, noone will use those I think. What you could do is make a rut that also goes onto the mound, that will force people to take those and prevent tripling from the outside ;)
- Did you change the triple Bj was talking about? It feels easier to get... I think the first takeoff could be a little lower to prevent 250 from hitting it, and 450 from flying way far.
- The thing I was talking about at 5:20 is imo better. Problem is, it's one lined now... maybe a rut on the inside + making the two "jumps" way more soft on the inside line would help that.
- Regarding the roller section, it's perfectly doable now but I wonder if  rounder, higher rollers wouldn't be better and more realistic (from 1 to 8, not just the first 4).

Good work tho!
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 01, 2017, 03:41:09 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/4ccd4565eb1296a461fb2c608971483c.png)

It's easier this way to explain which jumps you are talking about :P
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Bj Slice on November 01, 2017, 04:13:45 PM
Tripple that starts at jump 16 can also be possible. yeah the lucas oil tripple (22) I think needs a little landng slope
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on November 01, 2017, 05:54:42 PM
Great job man! Really well done so far. Is the vertical scale off though? Everything seems a little small except for the jumps which are obviously built to roughly the right scale on top..
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 01, 2017, 07:10:51 PM
Wait you are "adding" the jumps on top of the initial heightmap under photoshop right?

... what kind of overlay method are you using? Careful with those, you can mess up scaling that way. Not sure what the term for what I use is in other languages (I use "superposition" but it's french... I think it's "Screen" in the english version).
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 01, 2017, 08:55:30 PM
Yes, i also use Screen (ger. Negativ multiplizieren)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 03:03:40 AM
the time map.bat needs has def. something to do with the size_x and z  ;)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 03:32:35 AM
OK, the scale wasn't correct  ::) dont know where i made the mistake... the scale is 67 instead of 57 - maybe i just misclicked when i was writing it down or i misclicked in the google altitude.. because the lowest part is like a hole. 1 cm more left and its +10meter :D dont know
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 05:48:33 AM
(https://i.gyazo.com/3425272312ba09cff93774a2957bc1fe.png)

To the record: It's often alot faster just to make a new jump in sketchup than to try 20x to fix one jump  ;D
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on November 02, 2017, 08:30:02 AM
Good news on the scale!

As for the jumps, it's one of those things. There is no wrong way, just a way you find works best for you. Nice to see your progress mate :)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 08:35:10 AM
uploading BETA 03 (DL first post)

changelog: too much
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 08:38:02 AM
i had 3 jumps which were to steep.. when i scaled them down, so i changed the jump and tada -- its working so much better :)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Bj Slice on November 02, 2017, 09:08:04 AM
It feels much better now, ruts are catching my front end so much better than beta2. I like it when you have to be precise at Jump 16 for the triple. Jump 22 has a good downslope now. I also like the fact that I had to nail the correct corner speed at Jump 28 to get over the tricky double. Added inside ruts on some corners feels just right to me. And one more thing, I can feel the speed bumps more now. Nice work Phil!
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 02, 2017, 11:29:21 AM
I'll give it a shot when I get home tonight, but generic question: given that you are using an already bumpy terrain, how are you planning on doing the deformation? Just using a single homegeneous thickness everywhere (and let base roughness increase with time), or use Sandy's technique of a rougher deformation layer that will pile up?
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Ruubs on November 02, 2017, 11:51:48 AM
It'd suggest putting in a couple of small braking bumps already + using my technique. I feel that that'll give me most realistic and fun results deformation wise.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 11:52:54 AM
I want less deformation in corners, so they will be soil and then i will try compact soil on a lot of sections (not on the jump-ramps)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 02, 2017, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 11:52:54 AM
I want less deformation in corners, so they will be soil and then i will try compact soil on a lot of sections (not on the jump-ramps)
You got it wrong.

Deformation order:
Sand > Soft Soil > Soil > Compact Soil.

But since it also affects grip, I would suggest using only one type of terrain on a track like Highpoint and play with mask opacity for deformation speed and thickness (Sandy's technique). You can make turns "thinner" than breaking areas.

Changing terrain type will mess with traction, and sometimes give wierd deformation issues (the ruts "stops" at the end of a terrain type for example).

Quote from: Sandbiter on November 02, 2017, 11:51:48 AM
It'd suggest putting in a couple of small braking bumps already + using my technique. I feel that that'll give me most realistic and fun results deformation wise.
If the base terrain already has some roughness, regular deformation work reasonably well. It will dig harder when the constraints get higher - on the face of the bumps for example. Giving in the end similar results to making braking bumps with your technique, it's just that they will always somehow be there and you don't havea perfectly flat terrain when the track is fresh.

In theory you could combine the two techniques for some radical deformation, using the negative of the heightmap (minus the base hill) as deformation mask (hinthint).
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Ruubs on November 02, 2017, 01:53:57 PM
Thats totally true, however I feel like 'my technique' isn't great at making its own braking bumps. At least on Southwick it didn't deform as I thought it would, maybe it is better on normal soil tracks though.

Adding some minor braking bumps on the terrain will make the bike bounce around just a tiny bit already, which'll help make braking bumps larger. I don't think the bike bounces around when the terrain is flat, thus resulting in no braking bumps what so ever.

Sure, adding braking bumps into a deformation layer might work out, but that might also cause very sharp edges between the two thicknesses of layers.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
beta 04 uploaded

cant find anything i want to change anymore :D maybe the deformation, but the rest is super fun (for me)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 02, 2017, 02:29:47 PM
Does that mean objects are in already? :D
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 02:38:38 PM
Like on Spring Creek i wont do objects :D I have to wait for tracked update with stock objects + assest thread :)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 02, 2017, 02:45:44 PM
If you want a head-start with objects, I do have a pretty neat looking starting gate, and I have the Monster finish jump frame from Bobby. More supercross-style but pretty usable.

Don't use TrackEd for objects though... Blender is awesome for that once you get the hang of it. You can "deposit" objects onto a surface (tuff blocks etc) pretty well, randomize copies of groups (trees), check for collidable stuff, etc. You just need like 1 or 2h figuring it out, then it's seamless.

I don't know how open you are to it Sandy and TFC, but if we could get your yellow track side sticks / spongebobs it would already be ace.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 02:54:14 PM
TFC will upload his objects in the near future :) And with the new terrained we will get the stock objects by piboso/snappe (no release date)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 03:05:34 PM
anyway next track :D what should i do?
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: joao santos 17 on November 02, 2017, 03:12:16 PM
Mxgp of Portugal Águeda please
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 02, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
I'd say we need more MXGP tracks. Just not of the shit flat kind we have seen lately (Assen, the MXGP US tracks,  Qatar, etc).

I really like Trentino (just make this one with a huge surrounding,the mountains there kick ass), Teutschental, Saint Jean d'Angely personnaly.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 03:31:45 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/ad96efd30b06e39eebcbb8a42e8d3701.png)

this is trentino in sketchup :/ Dont know, i was more planning to do the ama tracks first :)
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Twitch135 on November 02, 2017, 03:39:40 PM
Loket would be cool also  :) I also like the tracks Asdrael mentioned.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 02, 2017, 03:45:22 PM
We still need some AMA tracks:

(Budds Creek) 2017
Hangtown
Ironman
Muddy Creek
Thunder Valley
(Southwick) 2017
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 02, 2017, 03:47:17 PM
My order:
Ironman, Muddy Creek, Hangtown, Thundervalley.

I think Muddy Creek is almost complete from Vortex though.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Ruubs on November 02, 2017, 03:54:54 PM
I could try and upload some of my objects this weekend. I'll have to use teamviewer to get all the files though cuz I forgot to put them on my macbook earlier this year..

Southwick didn't change though, did it? Surely it needs an update (mainly objects IMO..) but the layout didn't change I think.
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Heathen on November 02, 2017, 08:06:39 PM
So im still pissed i can't make it over that tripple, i just went for it that 1 run and yeah shit happend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63okwtOq0V8

If im missing any credits or anything, please tell me and i will add them ! =)

#46
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 02, 2017, 09:22:13 PM
Just tried beta 4. It's great! The only thing is I think you could have toned down the roughness a tad. It's going to be brutal when the in game deformation really kicks in...
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: GDUBMX on November 02, 2017, 10:50:27 PM
@phil... Thunder valley please!
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 03, 2017, 10:51:44 AM
Just wanna say that I played more than an hour on that track yesterday. Having great fun on it - it's still on the rougher side of things but not that bad that it throws you off. You can make most lines work, but when you find your own it really clicks. There might be a few unintended "fast" lines though that are doable with the 450 only but your throttle game must be on point :p
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 03, 2017, 11:05:53 AM
Yeah the roughness is like the v03, so there is still a little to improve! But in the end i have to slow down some sections :D otherwise the track is too fast
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: Asdrael on November 03, 2017, 11:27:09 AM
btw - race data doesn't work.

Also, is it ~1:1.1 scale or did you stick to 1:1 this time?
Title: Re: High Point 2017 - WIP
Post by: philiaN on November 03, 2017, 12:38:13 PM
10% upscaled :)

Dude i made a 1 hour video tutorial for my text guide... sound doenst work.... FML