MX Bikes Official Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: PiBoSo on August 30, 2018, 02:53:29 PM

Title: Steam version
Post by: PiBoSo on August 30, 2018, 02:53:29 PM
There has been positive feedback about the netcode changes in the latest Beta9 release ( not as positive as I hoped for, though... Is it because the old netcode wasn't that bad, or because the new one is not that good? ).

So maybe it's finally time to wrap up the Steam release.

It would be interesting to know from the community of loyal MX Bikes users what is needed to reach the goal.

What's the MUST HAVE in terms of fixes, new features and content? Just the bare minimum for the first release, not what could be added in later updates.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: тғc on August 30, 2018, 03:44:59 PM
I haven't tried the new beta properly yet but will definitely come back here when I have given it a proper run :)

But, great to hear that the netcode is better, really looking forward to getting online.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Asdrael on August 30, 2018, 04:01:44 PM
Well, it's been out less than 24h... I know I have been able to play it 15mins top. Not gonna get a lot of decent feedback, at least before the weekend. However...

If netcode is "fixed", what I consider the bare minimum for a decent Steam release, in order to not have a monster wave of bad reviews with 30 min played is - considering the demographic of a Steam MX game is probably 15 years old ADHD "my mom has a padded wallet" kids:


Improved multiplayer experience
It NEEDS to be easier to figure out what's going on online and how to access it. Apparently a Workshop is out of the question, so you at least need to:
General physic fine-tuning
General polishing
We are still on "Mid Soft" tyres with no options. Asphalt is still ice skating. Half of the player assists are not really self explanatory. We still have a stability slider. Menus should be accessible using a pad (steam box users). Etc etc.

Documentation
You really need to provide a good Wiki on how to do mods. Right now, it's still very fragmented and vague information and at least for MX Bikes I would say maximum 5 people know how to build a bike from scratch, and around 10 how to build a track. Such a game thrives on community made content.


I think in terms on content, it's more than enough with the base game for a Steam release provided users will make more content. But you only have one shot on Steam, so yeah...
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: gokitty199 on August 30, 2018, 04:45:43 PM
Documentation
You really need to provide a good Wiki on how to do mods. Right now, it's still very fragmented and vague information and at least for MX Bikes I would say maximum 5 people know how to build a bike from scratch, and around 10 how to build a track. Such a game thrives on community made content.


I think in terms on content, it's more than enough with the base game for a Steam release provided users will make more content. But you only have one shot on Steam, so yeah...
thats a good post in general. i agree about the wiki, but at the same time, if someone knows how to create a bike model then i feel they have the resources to do their own research to port it in game. otherwise a list of video tutorials would be helpful from the community. i have been wanting to upload a basic track making tutorial just to get people started, but i dont think the community is really big enough yet to have a new wave of content creators.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: тғc on August 30, 2018, 04:56:51 PM
Documentation
You really need to provide a good Wiki on how to do mods. Right now, it's still very fragmented and vague information and at least for MX Bikes I would say maximum 5 people know how to build a bike from scratch, and around 10 how to build a track. Such a game thrives on community made content.


I think in terms on content, it's more than enough with the base game for a Steam release provided users will make more content. But you only have one shot on Steam, so yeah...
thats a good post in general. i agree about the wiki, but at the same time, if someone knows how to create a bike model then i feel they have the resources to do their own research to port it in game. otherwise a list of video tutorials would be helpful from the community. i have been wanting to upload a basic track making tutorial just to get people started, but i dont think the community is really big enough yet to have a new wave of content creators.

Might be just the opposite. It might be that new content creators aren't stepping forward because the whole thing is so complicated until you figure it out..
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Mace-x on August 30, 2018, 07:04:06 PM
Asdrael list is pretty much everything that is still wrong, asphalt physics are like ice, supermoto Is bugged a lot aswell, can't really ride, leaning angle is way to small and would be good to have better modding tools/documentation.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: HornetMaX on August 31, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: PiBoSo on August 31, 2018, 11:14:35 AM
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?

Yes  :-[
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: HornetMaX on August 31, 2018, 11:22:30 AM
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?

Yes  :-[
Isn't that the perfect situation for a hotfix-style patch ? As in "Release9b, just download the updated exe"
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Maatth4 on August 31, 2018, 12:03:44 PM
A complete tutorial on creating circuits would be really good!
I think a lot of people do not want to get started because it seems very complicated to do.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: тғc on August 31, 2018, 12:36:35 PM
After thinking on it, here are my 'must haves for a Steam release:

1. Better netcode. Yes it's much better but still needs work.
- Banged bars with some people last night, worked well except the back of the bike is made of concrete and the front is made of air. Depending on where collision happens determines who goes down.
- When people join it freezes badly, or shoots you 20 feet ahead on the track

2. Jump starts. This will annoy the hell out of everyone.
- You shouldn't be able to jump start in MX, this feels like something left over or included without thinking from GPB. As Sandy said: If you jump start, your front wheel goes into the gate and won't drop until you back up. Missing the entire race because you flinched on the start line is unacceptable.

3. Server browser & Joining.
- This either needs a user created displayable list of mods the server is running with download links, or it needs to be auto download like other games.
- When you don't have something the server needs it should tell you what you're missing as others have said.

4. As said, allow people to join and spectate races in progress.

5. Last and least really, because 1 - 4 are the essentials. Gameplay / physics.
- Lean angle too high. A) I can't get the bike down low enough in some corners and B) when I do, and I'm railing a berm fast I fall off for what seems like no reason.
- Whips are great but you can throw them so far that everything locks up and you can't even attempt to recover. This sucks when you scrub too hard and feel like you could probably have saved it if it let you.
- Uphill physics allow the rear end to dance too much. I get it's not easy riding uphill but the rear should be more planted, after all with power on and good traction the rear should be very weighted.
- Bouncyness, sometimes when you brake too hard and start again and turn too much you get stuck in a weird spin bounce fest.

Overall 1 - 4 are my essentials. Physics can be fixed over time but you will find it hard to come back from a bad online experience especially in a niche like mx simulation.

Thanks for taking the time to ask and I have one more thing that is consider the most essential thing:

Put a group of testers together so you're not launching on Steam blindly. We all want this to succeed and I'd hate to see it fail because something small was overlooked, or if it works fine with 10 bikes but not 11.. etc.. you get the idea ;)
 
We need to test the maximum amount of players on the gate at once.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: iNsane on August 31, 2018, 01:41:04 PM
Put a group of testers together so you're not launching on Steam blindly. We all want this to succeed and I'd hate to see it fail because something small was overlooked, or if it works fine with 10 bikes but not 11.. etc.. you get the idea ;)
 
We need to test the maximum amount of players on the gate at once.

so much +
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: PiBoSo on August 31, 2018, 01:55:10 PM
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?

Yes  :-[
Isn't that the perfect situation for a hotfix-style patch ? As in "Release9b, just download the updated exe"

Patches are meant for code-only quick bug fixes, not improvements that need time and testing.

More connection information will be packed with other features and fixes in Beta10.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: HornetMaX on August 31, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
Patches are meant for code-only quick bug fixes, not improvements that need time and testing.
Agree. Just thought that the change in question was a fairly simple thing (apparently it's not the case).

More connection information will be packed with other features and fixes in Beta10.

Cool.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: GDUBMX on August 31, 2018, 09:47:32 PM
As mentioned by Asdrael and TFC +1

And i think the ability to lean/turn way more would be great. i always find when i play this game i have to give corners a real wide approach to make the turn, i  feel like i cant turn sharply at all.

Also think the Steam Workshop style feature would be a great addition or something similar like mentioned, some server system where we can see exactly what is going, how long left of race, mods needed etc. That would be really useful and of course the ability to download all required mods to join.

I always think Steam users will complain about lack of tracks,bikes and gear etc. Currently mx bikes doesnt have any official licenses at all so we get you cannot add branded stuff, however.. can we please get a fully updated rider model from at least 2013 instead of the 80s one we have. Honestly there will be a very select few that wont know about mods and just use stock content and im sure they prefer a modern rider with modern gear,helmet and boots.

if im being perfectly honest here Piboso i think the urge to release the Steam version is a premature and id wish you just hammer out all the above and then consider it. First impressions can be lasting impressions. If you as the developer rushes the game out with what we have currently i feel it wont be well recieved. there is not really a thriving online community and zero singleplayer, hence no reason to play.

If you fixed all the stuff we've mentioned as well as create a few more tracks, update that 80s rider, better animations etc then perhaps you'd stand a better chance of a well recieved release.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Sandbiter on September 01, 2018, 10:05:27 AM
5. Last and least really, because 1 - 4 are the essentials. Gameplay / physics.
- Lean angle too high. A) I can't get the bike down low enough in some corners and B) when I do, and I'm railing a berm fast I fall off for what seems like no reason.

To add to that lean angle. Currently the lean angle is determined by the angle of the terrain, isn't it? I don't think that's how it should work. It creates really weird leaning beheavior when coming into a berm/rut. For example, you lean in slightly before the turn, then you hit the berm or rut, and all of a sudden you're leaning over WAY further than you expected.

How I THINK that lean angle should be is not having the lean angle determined by the angle of the terrain, but the global angle. Obviously this won't work with the current lean angle, because it is way too small, but it will work once you've increased the initial lean angle.

All of that will change the overal experience. It'll be a big change in physics, but I think it's for the best. I'm pretty confident that'll fix a lot of weirdness with the current physics.

That's the last thing I'll say about physics. Still planning on making my own MX game, and I don't want to make my competition harder to beat. :D
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: tosteetos on September 01, 2018, 06:51:51 PM
What TFC said couldn't be any more spot on. Please allow a group of knowledgeable riders with real life experience to test (not saying I'm one, I'm more of a road racing guy, but love MX Bikes as well). The last thing we would want is for the release to make the wrong first impression.  You don't get a second chance at a first impression. 
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: PizzaChet on September 03, 2018, 12:24:19 AM
Please improve the good direction of netcode and really get the physics/suspension gremlins fixed first please. Then you'll be ready for primetime.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: philiaN on September 03, 2018, 03:49:52 PM
Quote
What's the MUST HAVE in terms of fixes, new features and content? Just the bare minimum for the first release, not what could be added in later updates.

In short: Your main focus should be on multiplayer like race events/server stability/server browser and general polishing e.g. tweaking the ground surfaces for dry and wet conditions
and dont forget to check supermoto.

fixes:
- garage bug
- jumpstart -> remove
- stuck in objects/other riders -> short reset like it is now and long reset like short reset with no collision for 2secs (the actually long reset causes to many problems like rider nearby you cant respawn, respawn completly wrong on sx tracks)
- hitboxes -> change it to 1small and 1big hitbox if possible rounded hitboxes (picture below - blue current hitboxes)
- pitboard -> doesnt work in races/qualification
- rider eject cause of some of those hitboxes (handlebar, footpeg or foot idk) -> remove this hitbox, its annoying af
- connection lagg
- tweaking the surfaces dry and wet so they feel the way they should :)

new features:
- Vote system for tracks -> list tracks, vote, server restart with voted track (best solution -> player would stay on the server -> queue)
- Overlay for spectating: standings from first to last like in the picture below + time left and the class (mx1/mx2, open...)
- add all 3 rider views to the spectate mode - settings like fov, show hud, show rider stand should be taken over by the spectator
Quote
- Display ALL servers, not only the ones for which you have the track. Use a color code for the server name (black: you can connect ; red: missing bike and/or tracks)
- Allow server hosts to have a Link section in the server information forwarding to where you can get the content needed to play on that server. Clicking a "red" server should open your browser and forward you to the download page (hardcode http://forum.mx-bikes.com/ at the start of the address to avoid porn redirects...)
- Working friend list of who is playing where, compatible with Steam
- Fix the online garage bug
- Lift the server lock when a race is in progress and allow people to join anyway to spectate. No need to load a model then, should not induce any lag.
- Avoid at all costs server disconnections. When a race is over, loop back to practice with no disconnection (remove the track list from the server ini if need be).

- Piboso's all in one track editor (hm, tx, obj.)
 
content:

dunno

if i missed something i will add it :)

spec overlay:
(https://i.gyazo.com/419e861c5ba3f37eb60757c5925dcec3.png)
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Asdrael on September 20, 2018, 08:26:59 AM
Just to say that I've been following the daily dev thread on the PiBoSo forums and it looks promising. Keep it up!
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Pestelol on September 20, 2018, 10:17:22 AM
- possibility to paint bike, helmet, kit, boots and gloves  coming with steam version ?Or before?
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: PiBoSo on September 20, 2018, 02:08:50 PM
- possibility to paint bike, helmet, kit, boots and gloves  coming with steam version ?Or before?

Do you mean an editor integrated in MX Bikes?  ???
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: iNsane on September 20, 2018, 02:31:45 PM
I have a little suggestion to keep things nice and clean, eventually.
So the thing is that if we want to have bikes with different accent colors (like we have in our team, everyone has his color), wouldn't it be nicer to add a selection of accents into the bikes .pnt? Like having the main base.pnt and inside you got like livery_base.tga, wheels_base.tga, livery_cyan.tga, wheels_cyan.tga and you're defining the .tga's through an .ini file like colors.ini

[base]
name = [WW] Gray
livery = livery_base
wheels = wheels_base

[cyan]
name = [WW] Cyan
livery = livery_cyan
wheels = wheels_cyan

(https://abload.de/img/redq8da8.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/purplel5i12.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/fluo92e9z.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/cyanjif3i.jpg)
(https://abload.de/img/blue2xdar.jpg)

The same would go with kit and gloves paints. Like having a 2018 FLY Kinetic base paint and another option to choose the different colors.
This would reduce the amount of files we've got and clear things up. So you don't have to scroll through a list of 80 different paints which just have different colors.

I don't know if that's possible but it's just a suggestion.

//EDIT: regarding Kits
Welp maybe we don't call it "Accent" here but "Variation" or "Type"
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: тғc on September 20, 2018, 06:53:15 PM
That's a great suggestion..
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Pestelol on September 20, 2018, 07:02:01 PM
- possibility to paint bike, helmet, kit, boots and gloves  coming with steam version ?Or before?

Do you mean an editor integrated in MX Bikes?  ???
I am not a develloper I don't know what is an editor integrated if its like LCQ Studio yes LOL. Is it ask too much?
 If you could do that it will be great for the game. ability to customize  clutch lever, front brake lever even all parts of plastic covers, frame, handlebar, griped,wheels, footrest...everything that can be possible in real life.I know you are focused on simulation and really thanks for that  :-* but your game will become perfect with that.Thx for reading me
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: philiaN on September 23, 2018, 06:03:26 AM
For Steam release:
fixes:
- garage bug
- remove jumpstart
- change: holding long reset into instant respawn with no collision for 2secs
- hitboxes/collision (wip)
- pitboard
- rider eject cause of some of those hitboxes (handlebar or footpeg)
- connection lag (wip)
- polishing the surfaces dry and wet so they feel the way they should

new features:
- Vote system for tracks
spectate:
- Overlay for spectating
- add all 3 rider views to the spectate mode
server browser:
- Display ALL servers
- Allow server hosts to have a Link section in the server information
- Lift the server lock when a race is in progress and allow people to join anyway to spectate (wip)
- Add Playerlist into the info box of the server

After Steam release:
mods customization

fixes:
- multi uv / map issue (helmets: specular and reflection works / normalmap not - boots: specular only works properly)
- boots ingame (cant see them sometimes)
- boots paints (switching boots model will add the paints to the dropdown menu - it should reload the paints)
- shorten display names in menu with [...] - extend in dropdown menu

Split the menu into Mods -> Rider/Bike

rider customizations:
- new/improved rider model atleast the whole lower body
- moddable rider mudlayers (kit paints)

helmet:
helmet paint:
goggle: empty object
goggle paint:
visor paint:
face paint: including the neck texture
helmet cam: empty object
kit paint:
gloves paint:
boots:
boots paint:
protection:

bike customizations: the best way would be like lcq studio does: https://youtu.be/Zm9G2RbZwno (https://youtu.be/Zm9G2RbZwno) otherwise like this:
bike:
paint:
paint accent:
exchangeable modifications linked via an empty object
handguards:
handlebars: including barpad
barpads: texture only
exhausts:
disc covers:
tyres: for soft/mid/hard

graphics:
- add selectable motion blur
- truesky https://simul.co/truesky/ (https://simul.co/truesky/)
- distance rendering (wip)

physics:
- improved stability helper for uphills
- it would be worth a try to test what sandy wrote: (wip)
Lean:
Quote
As we all know, the lean angle is weird. I'm not asking for an increased lean angle since you already know about that. The way the lean works now, is that the lean angle seems to connect to the angle of the normal from the terrain. For example, you come into a turn while you lean in slightly before hitting the berm. Once you hit the berm, all of a sudden the bike will lean over a lot more. I THINK the way to fix this, is to make the lean angle connected to the global world axis, not the terrain normal. Though, before that'll actually work out better, the lean angle has to be increased. This method of leaning will most likely get rid of weird physics behaviors on uneven terrains. I'm pretty sure this'll also make the game more predictable and make it possible to have a lot rougher terrains.

Track Editor
all your titles would benefit immense by a track editor
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Pestelol on September 23, 2018, 09:49:38 AM
all this sounds perfectly <3
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: Bj Slice on September 23, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
Thanks for the updates. I am excited for new stuffs. I have one suggestion however, the ingame spectators on the sides of tracks model hopefully can also be an easy option/better model with less impact to rendering (if it does at all) for track-makers. So when we have a series again, atleast we could have a lively racing day. Way to go guys!
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: NorCal 986 on September 24, 2018, 03:58:11 AM
Lean angle seriously needs a change. Has a very "arcade physics" feel.
Title: Re: Steam version
Post by: bassit on October 03, 2018, 02:40:50 PM
I had a go of the alta for the first time the other day and immediately noticed the difference in engine braking.

As someone that is still not very good at the game i found the alta to be easy to ride and fell off much less due to the engine braking and feel it would be worth taking a look at the difference between the engine braking on the alta and the other bike models.

I think slightly more engine braking on the normal models could help with peoples initial reaction when playing for the first time and may help the steam release.

One of my gripes with the game as it is at the moment is when i fall off the bike usually ends up facing backwards (or much worse) because the rear wheel (gyro) is still spinning, this happens much less with the alta due to the near immediate engine braking that stops the rear wheel.