MX Bikes Official Forum

MX Bikes beta10 available:
http://www.mx-bikes.com/?page=news

Download:
http://www.mx-bikes.com/?page=downloads
( mirrors would be extremely helpful and welcome )

How to update:
http://forum.mx-bikes.com/index.php?topic=1914.0

Release Notes
- the bike lean control has been changed to not be linked to the estimated max grip. To unlock the full lean disable "Lean Help" in MX Bikes -> Settings -> Simulation -> Riding Aids

- the terrain deformation and collisions are now enabled by default in multiplayer

Modding:
- since the rear wheel gyroscopic simulation has been fixed, it should now be possible to use the correct inertia for direct drive ( for example electric ) engines

Best thanksgiving yet! Thanks Piboso!

(https://i.imgflip.com/2n7vkh.jpg)

Mirror:
https://www.mxbikes.rubenkuilder.com/mxbikes-beta10.exe

Quote from: Sandbiter on November 22, 2018, 08:57:30 PM
Mirror:
https://www.mxbikes.rubenkuilder.com/mxbikes-beta10.exe

Thank you.

I'll be the first to say it.

By unlocking the lean angle, you unlocked the game. Thanks man.

(PSA: 50% direct lean, 15% smoothing on the lean input with 150% linearity. Thanks me later).

God, can't wait to try it, this feeling again...thanks guys!

Wow, what an improvement. Great work team Piboso. So much more fluid and attacky, especially love the revised MXB Club track!

Ya new layout os awesome

SUPERMOTO IS ALIVE AGAIN! Thank you guys! ;D ;D ;D

For the people that haven't tried yet and are not on the Discord that they should join anyway, this is what a nice turn looks like now:

(https://i.gyazo.com/5ef5a09b6416fbf4024262fe5b939386.jpg)

it's even more extreme with the OEM that are not supported yet because the collision boxes make them wonky but yeah click to enlarge
(https://i.gyazo.com/827a82c81e026b5da72064183c0e2b26.jpg)

Still getting used to but liking it with no lean help on, had to turn down direct lean though. Gives you more control but also an easy way to crash.

Lots of improvement! Good job PiB

Haven't gone online to see anything there, but enjoying some great testing.

That front end still seems way too easy to lose and not sure what can be done for it to be more forgiving. Still just pile drives you to ground with no forgiveness upon slightest mistake.

Wow.. it's going to take a while to get used to this one. Definitely seems worth starting out with lean help disabled..

Massive step in the right direction, great job!

Hello Piboso,
thx for this update B10.
This new option"help lean" confusing me, I have never played simulating games before; could you give me an universal adjustment for this option?
thanks for your help.

It doesn't appear auto sit works?

The rider always stands

Quote from: geo on November 23, 2018, 01:51:57 AM
That front end still seems way too easy to lose and not sure what can be done for it to be more forgiving. Still just pile drives you to ground with no forgiveness upon slightest mistake.

i saw some guys complaining about front end or wonky physics in prev betas and now. i would like to say. tbh, i dont find any serious frontend issues since beta9 - if you do lean too fast or too low for some surfaces or doing something against forces affecting bike, than you may fall. extreme front brake using also may cause crashes. when i saw youtubers complaing about such things, i watched their bike control and it was obvious for me: they do not feel the virtual rider behavior, do not feel the track, braking technique. it seems MXBikes physics is much more complicated than the mx games we used to play, imo you guys dont know all the variety of situations and how to act in these situations. i can ride stable laps on rutted tracks or Highpoint which seems even unridable to some ppl. during last fun event on Glen Helen where 1st race was on very broken surface I fell sometimes (not often really) but only if i: a) too relaxed; b) lost attention to track; c) tried new tricks; d) track has constant textures, sometimes i couldnt detect changes well. for me the physics is not that unstable at least on stock bikes, i do not ride oems coz server is never connecting with them due to my low specs pc.

Thanks Piboso!

Downloading and uploading

http://www.swarleyruiz.com/PibosoVideoGames/MX-Bikes/Downloads/Betas/mxbikes-beta10.exe

Quote from: Pestelol on November 23, 2018, 12:04:41 PM
Hello Piboso,
thx for this update B10.
This new option"help lean" confusing me, I have never played simulating games before; could you give me an universal adjustment for this option?
thanks for your help.

I assume you use a controller, don't you?

Since you're saying you've never played a simulator before, you're probably used to left stick all the way to the left or right, to lean. The trick in simulators is, getting used to not jerking the left stick all the way left or right. Try riding around a few laps and only using half of the amount your stick can go. It won't feel much different than previous betas.

Quote from: loinen on November 23, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
i saw some guys complaining about front end or wonky physics in prev betas and now. i would like to say. tbh, i dont find any serious frontend issues since beta9 - if you do lean too fast or too low for some surfaces or doing something against forces affecting bike, than you may fall. extreme front brake using also may cause crashes. when i saw youtubers complaing about such things, i watched their bike control and it was obvious for me: they do not feel the virtual rider behavior, do not feel the track, braking technique. it seems MXBikes physics is much more complicated than the mx games we used to play, imo you guys dont know all the variety of situations and how to act in these situations. i can ride stable laps on rutted tracks or Highpoint which seems even unridable to some ppl. during last fun event on Glen Helen where 1st race was on very broken surface I fell sometimes (not often really) but only if i: a) too relaxed; b) lost attention to track; c) tried new tricks; d) track has constant textures, sometimes i couldnt detect changes well. for me the physics is not that unstable at least on stock bikes, i do not ride oems coz server is never connecting with them due to my low specs pc.

Exactly my thoughts. Too many people say the physics are bugged, while they're actually riding like in an arcade game or Mx Simulator. Yes Mx Sim is realistic, but compared to Mx Bikes it is still arcade-ish in my opinion.

Off course there are still a few weird bugs present, but most of the issues people have it straight up lack of control over the bike.

Lean Help On: your controller lean input will be limited to what the game deems the "maximum lean angle to ensure grip", usually around 45° or so on a flat surface - or to the normal of the terrain. So giving a 100% input might only make you lean slightly, because the bike thinks leaning too much would 100% not work out.

Lean Help Off: your controller lean input = your in game lean. No virtual limitations. Regardless of terrain and grip. So you can "overlean" and tip over, flopping like a wet banana skin on a rainy day. But you can also induce and control sliding much much better than way.

I can't stop thinking this is awesome. I was pulling some pretty nasty power slides, recovering from front end locks, and doing some double wheel sliding into a berm yesterday after an hour or 2 of training with lean help off. It also makes rider L/R and F/B lean much more important.

Quote from: SwarleyRuiz on November 23, 2018, 02:06:57 PM
Thanks Piboso!

Downloading and uploading

http://www.swarleyruiz.com/PibosoVideoGames/MX-Bikes/Downloads/Betas/mxbikes-beta10.exe

Thank you.

Bit more feedback about playing online and trying different things. Pointing out some negatives, or rather, stuff that you need to improve on now, since you already know that lean help off and spectating were really needed and turned out awesome.

Online play:

• Server hosting on tracks you don't have still don't appear. They need to show up in red, so you know which track to DL to join the fun.
  
• on connection of another client, you sometimes warp forward.

Stability of the program

• New crashes have been introduced: when you fall on a thin object (fence), the game crashes to desktop (no message). Seems to be due to the thin object being caught between the new hit boxes.

General handling

• With lean assist off, the bike seems to respond too slowly the first 50% of the input and too fast the other half. Linearity at 150% feels much better already and should be the stock setting.
  
• The rear tyre is OP. It grips too much both longitudinally and laterally. Full throttle should make you spin more easily, and leaning with some throttle input should make you go sideways more easily BUT not do a 180 like it does now. The rear needs less overall grip around it's neutral position, more lateral grip at extreme angles. Much more obvious with lean help off, and even more on 450f.

Hope that helps.

Impressive! The fun factor has now increased 200%! I didn't realise how restrictive it was before, but now, without lean help, so many things are achievable that I couldn't manage before (I'm not that much of an offroad rider). It is a little awkward at first adjusting to limiting the lean yourself rather banging full left / right, but soon get used to it. And now when I do crash, I know why and am happy about it! I can't stop practicing, very addictive now.
Brill Beta. Thanks!

One problem I've had in B9 and also now in B10 is there seems to be some real out of sync thing going on between players.

In the video below, I passed Phil only to get taken out. I asked him right away and he said he didn't see me. I understand if the engine didn't have this bug and I'd pulled this on Phil, I'd still be asking to get taken out  :P

https://www.youtube.com/v/uqOz8ix-1ec&feature=youtu.be

Anothe problem I've been having is to do with when people join. It's a lottery whether one of three things happens.

1. My screen freezes for 2 - 3 seconds and when it comes back I'm in a fence.
2. Nothing happens when they join, but 3 - 4 seconds later I jump forward 20 feet on the track somehow.
3. Neither 1. or 2. happen, I ride as normal, but I get severe input lag from my controller. Everything feels dull and unresponsive.

Wow, i watched it in replay and you were 2m the whole time behind me, but suddenly you crashed :D and i dragged your bike with me

Well.....my weekend with kiddos and haven't tried online, but apparently it seems we're not ready for a series  ::)

Edit and info: I turned gain down just a bit on lean and found I can slam my sticks the way I want, but ride smooth ;)

Any reason why mods are not showing up for me in b10? So far the lean change is nice, maybe an adjustable lean angle would be good?!

Quote from: geo on November 25, 2018, 01:39:35 AM
Well.....my weekend with kiddos and haven't tried online, but apparently it seems we're not ready for a series  ::)

Edit and info: I turned gain down just a bit on lean and found I can slam my sticks the way I want, but ride smooth ;)

Hey Geo, how'd you turn the gain down. I'm not able to check right now but the option is greyed out in game.. is this in the ini or something?

Quote from: NorCal 986 on November 25, 2018, 06:04:20 AM
Any reason why mods are not showing up for me in b10? So far the lean change is nice, maybe an adjustable lean angle would be good?!

you have to renew your core.ini and insert your mod folder ^^

Quote from: тғc on November 25, 2018, 09:14:51 AM

Quote from: geo on November 25, 2018, 01:39:35 AM
Well.....my weekend with kiddos and haven't tried online, but apparently it seems we're not ready for a series  ::)

Edit and info: I turned gain down just a bit on lean and found I can slam my sticks the way I want, but ride smooth ;)

Hey Geo, how'd you turn the gain down. I'm not able to check right now but the option is greyed out in game.. is this in the ini or something?

I have SteelSeries Stratus XL controller. In the engine you have so much control over your controller :) Can adjust sensitivity, but also the max value of stick movement (essentially gain).

Ah that's a shame.

PiBoSo, why is there no option to adjust 'Gain' on leaning?

Well, it's not a shame really ;) lol

It's kinda like putting your own customized lean help in game. Can really dial it in for your control needs.

I am really enjoying mxb more now.

Thank God my wife took my Xbox elite controller and I got this after divorce!!! Haha

Edit: I am actually finding (other than buttons) to keep everything on default in mxb and adjust sticks and triggers in the controller engine instead. Way more precise and just different than doing through mxb.

can someone help me everytime i open the track or push anybuttons my game crashes it just freezes for a second and the game shuts down

Just dropping in to say great work here! I love Beta 10. it's really good. Thank you for continuing to put the effort into this project and I really hope it's doing well for you guys.

New to MXBikes community. Has anyone else had trouble downloading the Mods for bikes, tracks, etc since the 10 Beta download? I'd rather not have to go back and download everything again unless I really HAVE too. ANy help would be much appreciated too!

Thanks!

Quote from: OttoRocket76 on November 28, 2018, 06:22:27 AM
New to MXBikes community. Has anyone else had trouble downloading the Mods for bikes, tracks, etc since the 10 Beta download? I'd rather not have to go back and download everything again unless I really HAVE too. ANy help would be much appreciated too!

Thanks!

do you mean installing mods? i havent had any troubles personally mate.

do you mean installing mods? i havent had any troubles personally mate.
[/quote]

Yeah! I figured it out though. I had to go the long ways and re unpack everything. Didn't expect to need to do that oops. Its all good though

I've obviously taken a break from mxb for a while.

I'm enjoying Beta 10

Good work!

Quote from: BadStar on December 05, 2018, 03:36:06 AM
I've obviously taken a break from mxb for a while.

I'm enjoying Beta 10

Good work!

Nice to see you mate, wondered when you might come by 👍

In the next beta, please just make the transmission direct like any other game! Having to 'drop' a button clutch to get going just sucks, and if you turn on 'auto clutch' it just pulls in the clutch while downshifting into corners, and takes way too long between shifts. Considering everything has to be on a controller, the transmission should not be that complicated. Anyone disagree?  :-X

Quote from: BadStar on December 05, 2018, 03:36:06 AM
I've obviously taken a break from mxb for a while.

I'm enjoying Beta 10

Good work!

finish your 2 strokes sound goddamnit! Hoh and welcome back too ;)

Ok now time for comprehensive feedback about Beta10, since I played and modded it quite a bit. I'll focus on what I think the current obvious and less obvious issues are, both objectives (bugs) and subjective (how I think it should work and wishes for the next steps). After a bit of back rubbing of course :p I would say the physics are in a very very good place, even if some values feel off by (quite) a bit. But great work on the more frequent and simply better updates lately.

Unless specifically mentioned, this is all with 100% stock game (no mods). Although with the modded (OEM) content, some issues because more obvious like grip and suspensions. Long read.

Positives

• LEAN HELP OFFFF. Game changer, can't live without it, have my babies, etc. The fact that you can overlean, and that it's not tied to an artificial reference is of course great, but I think the biggest benefit is that you know what your virtual rider will do. Quite frankly cut my "wtf did I fall" moments to 0. I will NOT touch the game again with Lean Help on.
  
• Spectate. Was needed, is a welcome addition. We have people jumping in when races are started already to "queue up" for the next practice, and we even have people spectating during practice for fun.
  
• Better collision boxes. This one is controversial - they are indeed better theoretically but they still give issues.
  
• Some bug squishing. Yay no garage bug anymore!

Bugs

• Collision. You still get dragged. Might be because one collision box of a bike gets stuck between 2 collision boxes of the other bike... not sure.
  
• CTD. Having CTDs when putting the bike on a small object, like a fence. I suspect this is due to the object slipping between 2 collision boxes, such as Sphere0 or 1 and Box0 of the chassis, and then the game trying to bump your bike from one collision box to the other.
  
• Online desync. See TFC's video. There seems to be no lag compensation, so the server often has a different opinion where you and your competition are. Makes for random crashes, and is extremely frustrating. This needs to be fixed for online racing with collisions on to be rewarding and not frustrating.
  
• "Race Data". Not sure how to describe and reproduce this one. Sometimes, resetting practice or going to practice after a race bugs you out. You can play normally etc, but your pit is in the middle of the track (I think on the centerline), facing a random direction. And when you ride, your lap board show giberish. Also bugs out player names I'm told.
  
• Online connection. Sometimes loops and doesn't let you connect. Might be because I'm using dual screen and/or alt-tabbing. This needs to be fixed for this game to be taken seriously online (Steam).
  
• Online connection 2. When someone else connects to the server, all bikes disappear for a second or 2. Can also cause you to ward forward a couple of meters. This needs to be fixed for this game to be taken seriously online (Steam).
  
• Online connection 3. Over 10 people on a server: high chance of game crash. This needs to be fixed for this game to be taken seriously online (Steam).
  
• Rider buttshake. When taking turns with a high lean, the rider feels confused where his butt should be. Visual only (?).
  
• Bike buttshake. An extreme whip (back wheel goes "in front" of the front wheel) bugs out the physics, and the bike just jerks the wrong way then. Might be emphasize by a camera bug (camera facing the wrong way thinking it's the right way). Using track side cameras, I could tell something looks wrong but I can't pinpoint what.
  
• Bike headshake. Not sure if bug or something I never encountered IRL. When the rear bottoms out on a jumpface that is not perfectly flat, the handlebars can shake / jerk in one direction. Not really noticable under normal play but it is there.

Things that should and need to be better (and shitty suggestions)
Each subsection has a list in (my) order of importance.

• Online play on top of the very important bugs listed above
  
  • Online track change. When finished with a track and moving on to the next in the rotation, you should NOT have to disconnect and reconnect. Check the client for track availability and send him to loading directly. For people not having the track, just send them to "missing track" screen. Having to find the server again, reconnect, reload everything etc is a pain, you always lose people. Bonus: you can keep bikes loaded and only load the track. (Quake Champion is currently having huge issues with that, and it's the #1 complaint from the playerbase: lobby has to go, make everyone server-stick).
    
  • Online deformation. Add a "Groom track? Y/N" vote. If yes, force people to pit for 5s when deformation gets reset.
    
  • AFK voting has to go. People not voting shouldn't count as no, they should not count - period. Getting stuck on a vote because half the server is afk is not fun.
    
  • Server list. Please also display servers running stuff you do not have, to entice people to DL stuff. Use a color code if needed, like current color means you can connect, green means missing track, orange missing bikes, red missing bikes + track. This is needed to show people just getting stock stuff that there are more people playing, they just need content.
    
  • More commands and voting options. On top of my head: "!showlist" to show the server tracklist, "Skip to next track in the list? Y/N".
    
  • Player list. Hover your cursor over the server, get a player list (to find people you like and stalk play with them.)



• "Physics"
  
  • Rear wheel tap. Tapping the rear brake in the air still doesn't do enough.
    
  • Suspension values. I would say they are off by a bit, and too reliant on the spring rate. Each click doesn't seem to do much, and if you are not in the 54+ N/mm range for the rear for example, they are really too soft. Since OEM bikes allow you to go slightly faster because of better grip (see below), this becomes more obvious.
    
  • Tyre grip and terrain. Overall I think there is too much grip both tyres towards the side: you can get way too much lean before the front says fuck it, same for the rear. BUT when you lose the rear when powersliding, it steps out too fast. Also, starts as hell because forward rear tyre grip is too high, it takes too much to get it to spin. I would say, if you don't touch the front, to make the rear move more easily around (losing both forward traction and rear traction more easily, give it a bit less forward traction when spinning, but more lateral grip when sliding). Intertwinned with the suspension issue(s). When using OEM bikes, grip becomes really too good (I think because of more natural weight distribution).
    
  • Terrain feel. Values should be tuned for the different terrain types. Sand NEEDS to be more fluffy and feel softer in particular.
    
  • Bulldozing terrain. We need deformation to not only dig, but also move (and build up) dirt. You know it and we know it's not easy, but that's the kind of next level things that are needed.
    
  • Geometry. After spending probably over 200h with BikeEd, I really think there is an issue with the suspension (geometry?) model. Taking into account correct factory weight distribution (52% rear bias, 47% height bias on a CRF450 2018), [/u]you cannot achieve 100% accuracy on the rear shock geometry[/u] and have correct spring values, whatever bikeed values you get, on bikes with heavy springs. Roughly: the heavier the spring, the more you need to more the rear shock/frame link towards the fuel tank to align everything, have good angle etc and acheive correct spring values and sag in game. (Example: the Huskies are almost 100% perfect but use 46-48N/mm springs. The Yamahas are off with their 56N/mm springs... whatever I do). This might be due to the linkage being wierdly considered in game, or modern suspensions having a hidden system I'm not aware off. But worth mentioning after almost turning crazy on this.
    
  • The rider needs to hit the gym and do yoga. He still moves too slowly and with not enough amplitude.
    
  • Engine inertias and braking feel off when not on the 250f or 350f. I'd say the 2 strokes need less inertia and engine braking, the 450f more.
    
• Editors Crucial, as regular content = active playerbase. Mostly Bike and EngineEd because that's what I do now.
  
  • BikeEd: Please allow to "unlink" everything. I want to me abole to move my swingwarm model without moving my actual geometry setup...
    
  • BikeEd + EngineEd : Allow chosing a picture as background. This would cut down the geometry and Engine work by at least 3x.
    
  • BikeEd: Add UNDO with a 10x history (at least). I almost killed my keyboard several times because of that.
    
  • BikeEd: Add a suspension setup and sag test. I don't want to load my game for that...
    

Great points mate, espcially the indepth stuff about the stuff that should be better.

i like the vote to rebuild track during online.

Bug: Still experienced a CTD while click garage after creating a setup, on club, using updated oem yzf250

Great job at progressing the game! The choices for riding aids are awesome! The online experience is quite improved too, despite the fact that I just crashed out of bounds and CTD'ed from the Forest/Practice online server. However, it wasn't until the 4th guy joined that there was any perceptible lag/glitch, and it was barely perceptible. Kudos.

A huge improvement in physics! And with online play getting better, the future suddenly looks brighter! In my opinion, the next fix should be the 'floating' front end. Also, a steering stabilizer or damper would probably help a lot because the bars can be pretty twitchy.

Being able to adjust a steering damper (riders arms I guess) would definitely be interesting..

Quote from: NorCal 986 on December 11, 2018, 08:26:52 AM
A huge improvement in physics! And with online play getting better, the future suddenly looks brighter! In my opinion, the next fix should be the 'floating' front end. Also, a steering stabilizer or damper would probably help a lot because the bars can be pretty twitchy.

Quote from: тғc on December 11, 2018, 09:50:56 AM
Being able to adjust a steering damper (riders arms I guess) would definitely be interesting..

There is a "steering damper" in the bike cfg, but it's fixed and you can't adjust it. I think the rider.cfg is only how your input is transmitted. It would be great if both could be adjusted though, I want more damping and more strength... As for the floaty front end, I think the OEM bikes have less of an issue (unless using the 450f and accelerating, then yeah :p). Probably weight distribution, I should actually check that again.

Even with the OEM bikes, the headshake and drifting handlebars is noticeable, especially when in a powerslide or going uphill.

I first tried beta 10 with all of the assists turned off. After flopping about 50 times trying to corner, I turned on auto-dab, auto sit and auto L-R lean and it's beauty. I could lean, slide and whip quite easily. There's still some weird interaction with the ground plane, especially when you exceed 90 degrees to that plane.

Washougal is EPIC in B10!!! 4th gear wide open in some berms! This game finally gives a hint that it COULD be the next big MX 'simulation' game. I hope progress only speeds, because it seems like with removing the lean assist, this game is finally starting to raise some eyebrows.

It's actually really cool to see all the new players come and join in, way more lively discord interactions and content creation interests. B10 has proven itself to be the beta to seal the deal for alot of people. Once the online stability is 100% reliable (like mx sim) and low speed physics are improved (among other bits) we are ready to get serious with the online series stuff again.

Quote from: PizzaChet on December 12, 2018, 06:19:05 PM
I first tried beta 10 with all of the assists turned off. After flopping about 50 times trying to corner, I turned on auto-dab, auto sit and auto L-R lean and it's beauty. I could lean, slide and whip quite easily. There's still some weird interaction with the ground plane, especially when you exceed 90 degrees to that plane.

This is how MXB is meant to be used.

Probably many assume helpers are for kids only, and turn them all off immediately. This could be a serious issue for MXB, especially on Steam.
Helpers are actually a necessity considering that most of us use a "simple" controller and have limited feedback from the simulated bike.
This is why, prior to Beta10 release, it was pondered to remove the possibility to turn some helpers off.

Speaking of helpers, I have noticed the stability bar has been Completely removed? Is this because of the introduction of the lean angle, thus making that stability bar pointless?

We still have to tweak linearity on the controller to achieve a smoother/more stable feel.

Also what are the plans for the next beta in terms of online stability? Cheers Piboso

I agree with the auto-dab (since you can't do it yourself anyway). Removing it induces wierd glitches from the rider in turns.
I somewhat agree with auto-sit, I have it on now because I can overwrite it when I need it? Having it on makes it less of a finger exercice to turn, lean, sit, shift and clutch at the same time.
Auto L-R I guess you could have it on, but I'm so used to having it off now that I feel wierd having it on...