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Mods => Bikes => Topic started by: warking34 on May 05, 2020, 05:55:53 PM

Title: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: warking34 on May 05, 2020, 05:55:53 PM
hey
is it possible to run pay2021 skins on oem bike?
The pay2021 skins look awesome but i like the handling on the oems a lot better.
(Btw) why do the bikes feel so different?
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: tjark_boettcher on May 05, 2020, 06:01:27 PM
Since the skins are made by Milestone and not Pay2021 and the models are a bit better than we have
i have no idea if its gonna fit, most likely they dont. But try it.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: iNsane | WW on May 05, 2020, 06:03:20 PM
No.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Ruubs on May 05, 2020, 06:12:14 PM
Like the guys above me said, pay2021's models are stolen from other games. These games pay professional 3D artists to get the best looking bikes. Pay simply stole them and imported it in MXB. OEM models are all made by hobbyist 3D artists from the community. That also means that the liveries from pay 'his' models aren't interchangable.

The reason why pay's mods don't handle as good is because he hasn't spend nearly as much time on setting all bikes up properly as Asdrael did for the OEMs. Every OEM bike is made to replicate a real bike as good as possible, from the amount of engine braking to the position and amount of fuel that goes in a bike. There's a lot that goes into making the OEMs as good as they are, hence why we usually have to wait long for bigger updates.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: 𝖙𝖋𝖈 on May 05, 2020, 06:21:12 PM
OEM's are 100% made by modders with passion who spent a huge amount of time both modelling and setting up engines and geometry to give the community some fantastic and competitive bike choices. I seriously doubt many people have an ounce of an idea of how much work goes into bikes.

Oh and these are given away for free. Not sold. No one asks for money.

Then you have someone who rips a model out a game and copies the stock MSM engine and does a rough 'it looks right' geometry.

I know which bikes I'd rather use and support.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: warking34 on May 05, 2020, 11:30:39 PM
thanks for the answers, I already thought so!
I really respect the huge amount of work these guys do for our community and make the game a much better experience.
You really feel that the oems are much more realistic and that every model feels different.
I really like the soaring eagle rmz or stewarts kx look but you're 100% right.

Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: WestSideWill763 on May 06, 2020, 01:52:54 AM
Quote from: warking34 on May 05, 2020, 11:30:39 PMthanks for the answers, I already thought so!
I really respect the huge amount of work these guys do for our community and make the game a much better experience.
You really feel that the oems are much more realistic and that every model feels different.
I really like the soaring eagle rmz or stewarts kx look but you're 100% right.



theres already a soaring eagle paint out that's not pays that fits just fine and a couple kx skins made for the rm so you can kinda play with that if u want a kx stewart paint
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: tjark_boettcher on May 05, 2020, 06:01:27 PMSince the skins are made by Milestone and not Pay2021 and the models are a bit better than we have
i have no idea if its gonna fit, most likely they dont. But try it.


Skin are made by me, never was a Soaring Eagle in MXGP games, common sense please. here you can see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmsKA2gAsc


a complete skin pack for MXGP2 (2016) 30 skins draw at hand witohut template, since the RMZ is from MXP2 i use my skin

My bikes handle like any person can do it since im just one guy, not a team making only physics, is 2+2

And about the ripped bikes i understand the ripped thing but i dont understand why EVERYONE uses helmets and boots ripped but not the bikes, some says the OEM have physics and my conversions bikes are just cosmetic, they dont, i spend time doing my physics, but as i said, im just one guy, not a team.

Look for yourself @warking34

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655090729495953410/706187493497634887/Untitled-2.jpg)

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655090729495953410/706187474426265701/Untitled-3.jpg)

From now on, you must hear the two bells

I see a lot of double standards and a lot of ego in the "most important" members here. I'll be back with the kids from SX and MXGP. They are more authentic and not so selfish.

Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: iNsane | WW on May 06, 2020, 04:35:11 PM
I've explained myself several times about those imports and we both talked together.

Say selfish again after I politely recommended to you to not release ripped bikes, after I've helped you with stuff because I'm everything else than selfish. You've f*ked up not us.

Also I've explained that ripped bikes cause online issues because you're forced to have them installed in order to play on certain servers, you've caused for a lot of trouble. Gear/Rider cosmetics are not necessary for online play. I could've guided you through steps to make your models cosmetics only, too. Then we wouldn't have all this trouble.

And yet I've credited original authors which you have not. Also now stealing sound mods made by a Player without any credit, great work dude.

Btw, the only one doing physics for OEM bikes is Asdrael.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Asdrael on May 06, 2020, 04:38:12 PM
Quote from: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 04:21:44 PMMy bikes handle like any person can do it since im just one guy, not a team making only physics, is 2+2

And about the ripped bikes i understand the ripped thing but i dont understand why EVERYONE uses helmets and boots ripped but not the bikes, some says the OEM have physics and my conversions bikes are just cosmetic, they dont, i spend time doing my physics, but as i said, im just one guy, not a team.

I was always the only person doing physics on the OEM and have always been. This time around, I got some help from Shack for suspension dampening value profiles as we were both working on it and ended up with similar profiles, and ultimately I made an average of both more or less.

About the part I put in bold - you must be a pretty slow guy. I was repeatedly told to look at your files, always avoided it. I just caved in and had a look today. This is what you do:
- change 2 values in the MSM dyno by 1 hp. Example https://gyazo.com/fd05bf90e7c356dbf86cbe7acef16a83 (https://gyazo.com/fd05bf90e7c356dbf86cbe7acef16a83)
- copy the rake angle from my files, as the only ones I didn't make public are wrong in your pack proving you can't even get those values correct.
- slap the model on the MSM geom and move the wheels to align the axle. All suspension travel, pivot points, length etc are the same, except those attached to the swingarm that you had to move a tad to align the model. Protip: When you change the rake angle and not touch anything else on the front end, you fuck up all the front end values.
- don't touch anything in the MSM cfg beside the name, hell you even keep Piboso comment lines in them (lol).

What makes me sad is that I published an entire walkthrough on how to make proper bikes in this very forum. But I guess your way is the easy way, and you take pride in having likes on a facebook page and deleting comments against you there instead of making an effort and attempting to learn something. Which is why I mock rippers like you. On top of that, you now steal other modders work (such as Beyer's) and diffuse it, which further than deserving mockery, deserves shame.


TL:DR: lulz.

PS: nice adds Insane LOL
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: iNsane | WW on May 06, 2020, 04:35:11 PMI've explained myself several times about those imports and we both talked together.

Say selfish again after I politely recommended to you to not release ripped bikes, after I've helped you with stuff because everything else than selfish. You've f*ked up not us.

And yet I've credited original authors which you have not. Also now stealing sound mods made by a Player without any credit, great work dude.

Btw, the only one doing physics for OEM bikes is Asdrael.

I knew you were going to get away with it, so predictable

I take the sound from GDUB PUBLIC FOLDER, see for yourself

from here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtNsZxWQXss&t

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=8B09619328229236%21116&cid=8B09619328229236

But is ok, i gonna take out.

One is supposed to publish skins, sounds, ui, to improve the game, not to restrict it, good job on doing it.

Dont worry, you dont gonna see me again, still i respect you.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
Quote from: Asdrael on May 06, 2020, 04:38:12 PM
Quote from: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 04:21:44 PMMy bikes handle like any person can do it since im just one guy, not a team making only physics, is 2+2

And about the ripped bikes i understand the ripped thing but i dont understand why EVERYONE uses helmets and boots ripped but not the bikes, some says the OEM have physics and my conversions bikes are just cosmetic, they dont, i spend time doing my physics, but as i said, im just one guy, not a team.

I was always the only person doing physics on the OEM and have always been. This time around, I got some help from Shack for suspension dampening value profiles as we were both working on it and ended up with similar profiles, and ultimately I made an average of both more or less.

About the part I put in bold - you must be a pretty slow guy. I was repeatedly told to look at your files, always avoided it. I just caved in and had a look today. This is what you do:
- change 2 values in the MSM dyno by 1 hp. Example https://gyazo.com/fd05bf90e7c356dbf86cbe7acef16a83 (https://gyazo.com/fd05bf90e7c356dbf86cbe7acef16a83)
- copy the rake angle from my files, as the only ones I didn't make public are wrong in your pack proving you can't even get those values correct.
- slap the model on the MSM geom and move the wheels to align the axle. All suspension travel, pivot points, length etc are the same, except those attached to the swingarm that you had to move a tad to align the model. Protip: When you change the rake angle and not touch anything else on the front end, you fuck up all the front end values.
- don't touch anything in the MSM cfg beside the name, hell you even keep Piboso comment lines in them (lol).

What makes me sad is that I published an entire walkthrough on how to make proper bikes in this very forum. But I guess your way is the easy way, and you take pride in having likes on a facebook page and deleting comments against you there instead of making an effort and attempting to learn something. Which is why I mock rippers like you. On top of that, you now steal other modders work (such as Beyer's) and diffuse it, which further than deserving mockery, deserves shame.


TL:DR: lulz.

PS: nice adds Insane LOL

I follow your tutorial, wich is amazing, rake angles are publish in every bike spec.

https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2020/2020-yamaha-yz250f/

Still, im not, i doubt someone can be good as you in physics department so attacking me from that side is unfair.

It is clear that you do not want me, you do not have to do it, but defame me?

I don't like fighting or arguing but I can't stand idly by, anyway, spare yourself the words, I don't want to bother you or anyone else, don't worry I'll put down whatever it takes not to hurt you
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: iNsane | WW on May 06, 2020, 04:59:54 PM
Quote from: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 04:41:53 PMOne is supposed to publish skins, sounds, ui, to improve the game, not to restrict it, good job on doing it.

Dont worry, you dont gonna see me again, still i respect you.

Don't get me wrong, my aim is not to get rid of you.

All those moddable stuff you've said is not neccessary for online play. Your bikes are, as soon as someone hosts a server with them. And this is causing massive issues and questions "why can't I join, where do I get this pack" and so on. I could've guided you to make your models cosmetic only for already available bikes and make them fit 100%, but since you've given a massive sh*t on my request to you to not release whole bikes, don't expect my help anymore.

You've done great stuff to the game such as all your paints. I wouldn't have helped you if I knew you're going to massively screw up. I've seen your potential and everything you've published is a great addition to the game. It was just about those bikes.

edit:
Quote from: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 04:41:53 PMI take the sound from GDUB PUBLIC FOLDER, see for yourself

from here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtNsZxWQXss&t (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtNsZxWQXss&t)

Yes it was in GDUB's public folder. But atleast he credited him properly, which you have not.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 05:09:50 PM
I repeat, I'll put down whatever it takes not to hurt you, accept my apologies but dude, put in my shoes i spend hours converting the bikes, painted them, doing my physics
and i just get attacks, is not fair, im not bin laden dude.

Can you forget this? can we start from zero? i gonna take down everything.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Ruubs on May 06, 2020, 05:28:42 PM
First of all, the sound mods are from Beyer, not from GDUBMX. GDUBMX is simply sharing them with permission from Beyer.

Secondly, if you'd done any research or had been part of this community for a longer time, you'd known we've had lots of discussions about ripped content before. I for one do not condone any rips.

Thirdly, the images you provided, which shows ripped helmets and boots, are from mods which were released before Mx Bikes got a big audience, thus things not having to be as strict as they have to be now. Back when they were released there were maybe a total of 10 - 20 active players. Due to today's higher player counts, we need to keep everything under control and do it the way PiBoSo wants it. PiBoSo has clearly stated he doesn't want to see any ripped content.

Surely there are mods that we won't notice, but we try our best to keep ripped content away from MXB as much as we can.

Using examples of old mods doesn't make what you do right.

Then again, when I was a 10 year old kid, I wanted to design my own bikes. I had no idea how people did this, and I couldn't speak a word English. I did what I thought everyone did and that was to edit an existing bike, without knowing that was the wrong thing to do. Fortunately I quickly learned how to make legit bikes and I make my own games these days. What I am trying to say by this is, if there is a kid who makes his first every bike by using someone else's as a start, and he doesn't know it's not the right thing to do, we need to explain why he's not supposed to do it that way, and we should teach him how he can make his own from scratch. We shouldn't be the ones blaming a kid for not knowing how to make his own bike.

You on the other hand, you are surely older than 10 years old and should know what the right thing is.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: Ruubs on May 06, 2020, 05:28:42 PMFirst of all, the sound mods are from Beyer, not from GDUBMX. GDUBMX is simply sharing them with permission from Beyer.

Secondly, if you'd done any research or had been part of this community for a longer time, you'd known we've had lots of discussions about ripped content before. I for one do not condone any rips.

Thirdly, the images you provided, which shows ripped helmets and boots, are from mods which were released before Mx Bikes got a big audience, thus things not having to be as strict as they have to be now. Back when they were released there were maybe a total of 10 - 20 active players. Due to today's higher player counts, we need to keep everything under control and do it the way PiBoSo wants it. PiBoSo has clearly stated he doesn't want to see any ripped content.

Surely there are mods that we won't notice, but we try our best to keep ripped content away from MXB as much as we can.

Using examples of old mods doesn't make what you do right.

Then again, when I was a 10 year old kid, I wanted to design my own bikes. I had no idea how people did this, and I couldn't speak a word English. I did what I thought everyone did and that was to edit an existing bike, without knowing that was the wrong thing to do. Fortunately I quickly learned how to make legit bikes and I make my own games these days. What I am trying to say by this is, if there is a kid who makes his first every bike by using someone else's as a start, and he doesn't know it's not the right thing to do, we need to explain why he's not supposed to do it that way, and we should teach him how he can make his own from scratch. We shouldn't be the ones blaming a kid for not knowing how to make his own bike.

You on the other hand, you are surely older than 10 years old and should know what the right thing is.

I bought MXB in beta 4, see it like the future of dirt bike games, I was not wrong, i played, make conversions from MUD in that time, never publish them, then drop MXB, i back when MXB was on Steam.

Why i rip bikes? because i want to explore the full graphics potential of MXB, and mi*leston models are top of the graphics industry, i like to see "how they looked in MXB engine", of course using basics physics.

Is that bad?

Would you frustrate a child's dreams?


BTW, im a 11. yrs  old kid... plus 29 yrs. of experience
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Asdrael on May 06, 2020, 05:43:07 PM
Hey at least you can import what I guess is a blender model into the game. Those days, several people are coming up with original models and don't know what do next. Maybe give them a hand.

Hell, I have always said I would help anyone and "teach" them physic implementation if the model was self made.

Hit me up if you go that route.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: Asdrael on May 06, 2020, 05:43:07 PMHey at least you can import what I guess is a blender model into the game. Those days, several people are coming up with original models and don't know what do next. Maybe give them a hand.

Hell, I have always said I would help anyone and "teach" them physic implementation if the model was self made.

Hit me up if you go that route.

I offer that all the time!!! and the response i get is "i want to do it myself" wich is the best response i can get.

I am the first one to want to know "how they look ingame" since i work with computer graphics, is my fetiche.

Anyone can come and ask for help, people know i never say "no, i can't"
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Ruubs on May 06, 2020, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 05:38:54 PMWhy i rip bikes? because i want to explore the full graphics potential of MXB, and mi*leston models are top of the graphics industry, i like to see "how they looked in MXB engine", of course using basics physics.

Is that bad?
No, I don't consider exploring the potentional of MXB using other's work bad. However, releasing them to the public, without permission of the original creator, I do consider bad.

Quote from: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 05:38:54 PMWould you frustrate a child's dreams?
I wouldn't. I clearly explained in my previous post that we shouldn't do that, and why we shouldn't.

Quote from: pay2021 on May 06, 2020, 05:48:59 PMI offer that all the time!!! and the response i get is "i want to do it myself" wich is the best response i can get.

I am the first one to want to know "how they look ingame" since i work with computer graphics, is my fetiche.

Anyone can come and ask for help, people know i never say "no, i can't"

Asdrael wasn't asking for help. Asdrael was offering to help you.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Morin on May 07, 2020, 04:45:26 AM
I remember the days when Pay2021 would rip stuff from sim and release it to the public on PureMXS (unreleased/private templates, png's of bikes, etc) which is why I don't support what you do Pay2021. If you were to learn how to model and make everything ON YOUR OWN I will give you credit, props, feedback, etc, etc. I give credit where credit is due. iNsane, Asdrael and others put in COUNTLESS hours getting the OEM's perfect. Damien spent a lot of time making the KTM, RMZ, Husky, and Honda. (Is the YZF his? Can't remember) Were some of the B13 OEM's taken from Sim? Yes. Did they have permission to use them? Yes. This time around ALL of the OEM's were made for Mx Bikes. You simply took things from another game without permission to put them into MXB. People who don't create things for games like this don't understand where us creators are coming from on this subject. I've made countless stuff for sim, and plan on making countless stuff for this game. And I'd be pissed if someone took my work, put it into another game without me knowing or giving me credit for it.

As far as people saying no to help someone, everyone in this game have lives, some people don't have any time to help, or they had a busy day and just want to relax. If someone says they can't help me, I either ask someone else or teach myself. All of my photoshop and Illustrator abilities are self taught, am I willing to help people? Yes. Do I always have time, or want to help someone? No. You're digging yourself a hole here Pay, you release stuff on your facebook page and not on the forums because you know what you're doing isn't right, and you know you'd get called out on the forums.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: StoneRider on May 07, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
I think he gets it. We spoked. He understand what he did wrong and what he will have to stop doing or releasing to public. He got our point.
Although he did what he wanted and released the bikes while knowing it was wrong, he always been respectful, nice and polite with everybody. there is a lot of dudes here doing nothing but shit on everythings we are making for them. I got much more respect for Pay than for those dudes but nobody never say a thing to them while pay is getting fucked. A lot of us, including me have imported ripped stuff into mxb. Not bikes, but still.
Personally, all i see is a dude who awkwardly tried to make cool stuff, for him, and for us.

And now i think we made our point. Everybody here could benefit from his skills and everybody deserve another chance. He just gotta be more careful with things like beyer's sounds and don't forget to credit the right persons. And of course he gotta stop releasing ripped content. Like all of us :)

Let's forget about thoses rips, he puts down the links. Let's all move forward in the right direction now. We need good quality content not a pointless wars.
Come on let's skin the shit out of those new OEM's dudes
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: pay2021 on May 07, 2020, 03:39:19 PM
Save yourself the words, I try to be good, I have a lot on my shoulders to bear "this"

Thanks

pd: its done, everybody happy
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: CBM Racing on May 07, 2020, 09:34:30 PM
Please Read!!!

Everybody, please stop the fighting its not worth it because all of this fighting is turning the MX Bikes into the MX Sim community all over again and we are way better than that here. People arguing back and forth, forcing players out because they don't like them, or don't like what they do and condemning anyone who does support them isn't going do any good to anyone. So please everyone lets just find some way to figure this all out and get along.

I understand what both sides are saying but at the end of the day no matter how much everyone fights if you paid the money for the game you have a right to be here. I am not taking any sides all of you have been really nice to me coming in as a new player which is part of what I love about this game and community! I am just trying to keep the peace for the rest of the players. I agree if you use a mod someone else makes just put it into the description but I also agree that if someone wants to release content then they have the right just like the rest of us to do.

I just don't want to see this game turn into MX Sim where there are clicks of people that don't get along because that just hurts the game as a whole. When people stop helping each other, content starts getting hoarded or released to only specific people the game stops selling. I think everyone can agree on one thing we all want the game to grow. I sincerely hope that all of you figure out some way to get along. All of your content is great and I am sure it took a ton of time and work to make so let's just start fresh! Because guess what? Anyone that makes content has taken it from someone else even if it just has the smallest logo. I don't see credit being given to Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, KTM, Fox, Alpinestars, Renthal, Pro Taper, Track owners the list can go on for days! If we did credit them or ask their permission this game would get shut down and we would be riding completely stock MSM Bikes on made-up tracks which nobody wants. PiBoSo knows which is why he doesn't make the Bike, Gear, Graphics or Track packs himself. Every Moto related logo track or part in this game is another company or person's intellectual property that we do not have permission to use. I know this because I work in the industry and I have seen certain people go after other people with lawyers because they didn't have permission and never paid for the rights to use certain things some that are even in this game! So nobody's hands are clean here! 99% of this game is ripped or copied from somewhere else so we are all guilty in the eyes of the law! Maybe that is the common ground we can all use to bring the community closer together instead of letting it push us apart!

I know some people will take offense to this post but I honestly mean none. I just don't want to see the community split into factions because it benefits nobody especially the new players who are going to need your help to continue to grow this game. So please don't get angry at me for posting this I mean no disrespect to anyone on either side! I have nothing but respect for everyone consider me like Switzerland in this fight who just wants to see peace between everyone so we can continue doing what we love which is building and playing this game! I really hope you read this and understand what I am saying here. You are all very talented so instead of working against each other you could put aside differences and make this game so much better! Thank you for hearing me out!

Also please don't terrorize someone's server who has nothing to do with this argument! That was taking it way too far! Whoever did that to Darkslides19 was way out of line and it's just going to cause major problems down the road if it keeps happening. Eventually, he and all of his supporters will respond back and it won't be in a comment!
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Ruubs on May 07, 2020, 09:57:08 PM
All has been resolved already.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: CBM Racing on May 07, 2020, 10:19:10 PM
So sorry Ruubs I was on a very important conference call all morning with Feld and some of the other Race teams trying to figure out when we need to be ready by. So I was late to the Pay party and wanted to point out that instead of fighting with each other as they do on the Sim forums there is more to gain from working with each other! Pay2021 is not the only guilty one here! We all are because it doesn't matter if someone makes something from scratch or imports it so we don't own the intellectual property rights to any of it but we are all happy to use it including me so we are all wrong at the end of the day. Everyone including Pay has been super nice to me so I hate to see them fight over this when they could join together and make some epic content! But thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Motoqueiro Fantasma on May 08, 2020, 09:31:50 AM
Come on guys, you all are fighting to the same cause which is turn game better
every player did get happy with both packs, all content to community is a win/win condition
Dunno, in Mx Sim every year had a bunch of bikes without any problem now this become a personal brawl to show what?? bigger game studio developers aint give a damn about it after all.

Please continue giving support to their mods, after all this game have quality producers at their side. Im creating too, a track at Brazil to give something good back to every guy involved at great gaming experience here. Pay2021 and Asdrael team, thanks for the bikes.
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: Ruubs on May 08, 2020, 11:12:21 AM
Piboso has publically said he doesn't want milestone rips. We're here to help piboso keep them away.

Againz everything has been resolved already, so no need to discuss about it anymore :)
Title: Re: pay2021 skins on oem bikes
Post by: viseurderegle on May 09, 2020, 12:27:15 AM
Asdrael des barres tu me bannes parce que les mots te manquent jusqu à tes couilles pauvre type tu m as tué de rire pauvre dictateur de merde