Hi everyone. I've just downloaded the demo? and the game seems pretty cool, I'm umming and aahing about whether to buy this or MXSim. I definitely like the look of this game more, and after setting the controls can just about make it around the test track!
The biggest draw to me is online play, is it very active?
This game looks quite new, and doesn't have a hell of a following yet, just looking for some reassurance really that I'm not chucking my money away :)
Thanks!
I would definitely recommend MX Bikes over MX Sim but I really didn't get on with sim, it felt strange and floaty and didn't feel like a simulation. From the first moment I played MXB I knew it felt right even if the physics need work. It feels more hardcore even with all the assists on if that's what you like. Beta 2 is such an amazing leap from beta 1, it makes me all the more excited for future releases.
Online play is pretty limited at the moment by lack of players & lack of tracks, but I'd rather be a part of a developing community with space to create and help progression than an overcrowded (and from all I've heard childish) one.
But it's all down to personal preference. There is a LOT of content available for sim, tracks, lots of online play. But you would never be chucking your money away by buying MXB, why not have both? 8)
I've just about managed to get round the practise track without falling off.
Just bought a license!!
Really wish I hadn't wasted my money on MXGP :(
this and mxs will both have huge learning curves. in mxs, You need to train your brain to balance the bike, before it becomes fun. It takes about 10 hrs of frustrating game play to start to get the hang of it. but once you get over the hump its very rewarding. after a while balancing the bike becomes instinct and then you are good to go! mxb is still in early beta stage and im shure it will step up to match mxs! visually its already better!!! sounds are already better too!! just needs those bike physics sorted and it will be unbeatable!! but like The fat controller said, why don't you just get both!!
If its online play you need then MXSim is still the place to be. Unless you have a group of friends you can arrange races with in MXB i dont think the online really compares, but that will come with time, when MXB matures and each update doesnt completely change the way the bikes handle.
Graphics and sounds, MXB is killing it, I think it looks great and sounds great.
In the long run I think MXB is the place to watch, I think this will be THE hardcore MX sim for enthusiasts in the future.
I've played the demo of MXsim a fair bit, and to be honest it doesn't feel like a simulator at all to me, just a hard arcade game with lots of variable settings, I'm sure I made the right choice and I'm sure my patience will pay off ;)
Quote from: motopsycho87 on January 28, 2015, 06:53:08 PM
I've played the demo of MXsim a fair bit, and to be honest it doesn't feel like a simulator at all to me, just a hard arcade game with lots of variable settings, I'm sure I made the right choice and I'm sure my patience will pay off ;)
Thats kinda how I feel tbh, its a very strange feeling to the bike in mxsim. It doesnt feel to me like a real bike. Its hard though I cannot deny that. But I also feel MXBikes is where my money should be in the long run. Even if its just graphics, because it already looks much better than MXsim,.
sounds like you two aren't "over the hump" for mxs yet. its very realistic, just totally different to any other mx game. if your into mx/sx just don't dismiss it yet. its funny how I used to think it was really junk too!! give it a few more goes before you right it off. it will help you understand this game better too.
like I said 10 hrs of game play to train your brain. ;)
Quote from: al167 on January 29, 2015, 09:56:57 AM
sounds like you two aren't "over the hump" for mxs yet. its very realistic, just totally different to any other mx game. if your into mx/sx just don't dismiss it yet. its funny how I used to think it was really junk too!! give it a few more goes before you right it off. it will help you understand this game better too.
like I said 10 hrs of game play to train your brain. ;)
I have nearly 10 years with mxs. Countless hours. I get around a track just fine in it. I can still pick up on what it lacks. It certainly can be a lot of fun, but realistic is something I would not call it.
Quote from: rc4187 on January 29, 2015, 04:57:34 PM
I have nearly 10 years with mxs. Countless hours. I get around a track just fine in it. I can still pick up on what it lacks. It certainly can be a lot of fun, but realistic is something I would not call it.
not trying to get too off topic, but im interested on your view. please elaborate?
Quote from: al167 on January 30, 2015, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: rc4187 on January 29, 2015, 04:57:34 PM
I have nearly 10 years with mxs. Countless hours. I get around a track just fine in it. I can still pick up on what it lacks. It certainly can be a lot of fun, but realistic is something I would not call it.
not trying to get too off topic, but im interested on your view. please elaborate?
I think you would be better off answering the question 'do you ride'?
Quote from: al167 on January 30, 2015, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: rc4187 on January 29, 2015, 04:57:34 PM
I have nearly 10 years with mxs. Countless hours. I get around a track just fine in it. I can still pick up on what it lacks. It certainly can be a lot of fun, but realistic is something I would not call it.
not trying to get too off topic, but im interested on your view. please elaborate?
Well, let me preface this by saying that I have about 25 years ( started when I was 8 ) of riding and racing experience and reached a very high level. I know the feeling of riding in the real world very well. MX sim does some things right that are satisfying to pull off. However, it does not realistically simulate the physics of a motocross bike. The lack of independent rider lean and the physics being a bit floaty are my two main issues with it. The weight of everything doesn't feel right. You get used to it and adapt once you learn the physics of the game. MX-Bikes on the other hand... While still early in development and definitely needs some polish, is leaps ahead of simulating the real thing compared to mx sim.
And getting away from just the simulation part of it... The lack of shadows really gives you a feeling of disconnect from the ground. Every time I see someone compare the two games here... I open up mx sim and see for myself the difference so it's fresh in my mind. I really believe Piboso will have the premier motocross simulation once this thing exits beta. To me it's already the better simulation.
I agree RC, MX bikes is head and shoulders above IMO. I can't wait for the final product.
Quote from: rc4187 on February 05, 2015, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: al167 on January 30, 2015, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: rc4187 on January 29, 2015, 04:57:34 PM
I have nearly 10 years with mxs. Countless hours. I get around a track just fine in it. I can still pick up on what it lacks. It certainly can be a lot of fun, but realistic is something I would not call it.
not trying to get too off topic, but im interested on your view. please elaborate?
Well, let me preface this by saying that I have about 25 years ( started when I was 8 ) of riding and racing experience and reached a very high level. I know the feeling of riding in the real world very well. MX sim does some things right that are satisfying to pull off. However, it does not realistically simulate the physics of a motocross bike. The lack of independent rider lean and the physics being a bit floaty are my two main issues with it. The weight of everything doesn't feel right. You get used to it and adapt once you learn the physics of the game. MX-Bikes on the other hand... While still early in development and definitely needs some polish, is leaps ahead of simulating the real thing compared to mx sim.
And getting away from just the simulation part of it... The lack of shadows really gives you a feeling of disconnect from the ground. Every time I see someone compare the two games here... I open up mx sim and see for myself the difference so it's fresh in my mind. I really believe Piboso will have the premier motocross simulation once this thing exits beta. To me it's already the better simulation.
I have similar life experiences too here in aus, raced mx and sx ect for many years but now just casual rider and couch racer.
I also would love dynamic shadows in mxs,I don't understand some of jlvs ideas, like non user friendly menues and his marketing is just horrific lol (just look at the mxs website)
I do understand the floaty feeling your talking about, I spent a lot of time on reflex before I played mxs, and I remember the floaty feel at first, but its actually right. Its just the way the view is compare to games like reflex. it uses real forces for gravity ect just like mxbikes, so it cant be wrong and you will probably have to get used to it.. maybe its the fact that most tracks for mxs are so over scaled and you feel like your floating, but you are actually floating huge 50m triples ect.
another thing to think of, do you really think the rider moves left to right much in real life? watch some rear mudguard go pro footage on youtube. you will be so surprised how little the rider deviates from the neutral position. it only seams to deviate when an abnormal force kicks the bike and the riders body acts more like a spring and springs sidways wich is not controlled . body position is pretty central a most of the time!! imo. im not shure if anyone has enough fingers to use rider lean. will probably only used for whipping or scrubing maybe??.
as for mxbikes, I haven't got that "thrashing an mx bike feeling yet". but im shure it will catch up very quick to mxs!!! heres hoping piboso!
Quote"I have similar life experiences too here in aus, raced mx and sx ect for many years but now just casual rider and couch racer.
I also would love dynamic shadows in mxs,I don't understand some of jlvs ideas, like non user friendly menues and his marketing is just horrific lol (just look at the mxs website)
I do understand the floaty feeling your talking about, I spent a lot of time on reflex before I played mxs, and I remember the floaty feel at first, but its actually right. Its just the way the view is compare to games like reflex. it uses real forces for gravity ect just like mxbikes, so it cant be wrong and you will probably have to get used to it.. maybe its the fact that most tracks for mxs are so over scaled and you feel like your floating, but you are actually floating huge 50m triples ect.
another thing to think of, do you really think the rider moves left to right much in real life? watch some rear mudguard go pro footage on youtube. you will be so surprised how little the rider deviates from the neutral position. it only seams to deviate when an abnormal force kicks the bike and the riders body acts more like a spring and springs sidways wich is not controlled . body position is pretty central a most of the time!! imo. im not shure if anyone has enough fingers to use rider lean. will probably only used for whipping or scrubing maybe??.
as for mxbikes, I haven't got that "thrashing an mx bike feeling yet". but im shure it will catch up very quick to mxs!!! heres hoping piboso!"
Just bc you remain neutral on the bike for the most part doesn't mean it's realistic to remove the need to shift weight (And just because it looks like they remain neutral, doesn't mean they're not weighing different sides of the bike with they're feet). Getting weight on the outside peg or correcting a cross rut can require some body english. Also... If they have to scale up the tracks so much... Doesn't that mean the physics are off? You can certainly use forces for gravity and still change the gravity. I've built giant jumps in MXB and none of them feel floaty or wrong. I understand that people like mxs and even understand why. I just don't believe it realistically represents a true life simulation.
Here are some clear examples of pro's leaning/shifting weight that aren't just whips and scrubs. Watch a race with long straights with deep ruts or even a mud race and tell me how neutral they stay on the bike.
(http://static.grindtv.com/images/1/00/30/95/79/309579.jpg)
(http://www.drivesrt.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/CU1_2092.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWRxHhbIANtAAVv1cSQoPbRLRVkkCg2qHohsgiI-8gQC2L7kp4)
(http://rx.iscdn.net/2012/01/21308_dungey.jpg)
(http://www.thormx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Villopoto_Southwick20_4D107.jpg)
Just so you know..
I believe JLV doesn't add left/right movement because that'll fuck up the physics. In the first release of the game there wasn't even back/forward movement, so we should be happy that that was able to get in the game, and work this good.
If he does add left/right movement he'd have to change the physics as well.
Quote from: rc4187 on February 06, 2015, 07:28:59 PM
Here are some clear examples of pro's leaning/shifting weight that aren't just whips and scrubs. Watch a race with long straights with deep ruts or even a mud race and tell me how neutral they stay on the bike.
Notice also how often the rider "counter leans" (i.e. it leans towards the exterior of the turn): that basically never happens on road bikes (when on track).
Is the auto-rider lean in MXB any different from the sam ein GPB ?
MaX.
I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view. This might better as a default, then allow players to lean with the bike optionally. Seems to be used more often than not irl, even on big high banks the bike can be lent over further than the riders torso.
Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 02:40:45 PM
I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view.
According to a friend (with better knowledge of MX than me), the "better view" reason is the main reason why one "counter-leans" in MX: you just need to have a better view of the track surface.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 16, 2015, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 02:40:45 PM
I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view.
According to a friend (with better knowledge of MX than me), the "better view" reason is the main reason why one "counter-leans" in MX: you just need to have a better view of the track surface.
I should perhaps of said "it looks more like the real thing", I don't actually see any better, in fact while leaning I can probably see less of the dirt in front of me.
That's a curious answer to me, I've ridden lots irl and have never heard of, or considered myself, the view to be a reason for this leaning? In my mind it's more to do with counter balancing, getting weight to the outside peg and being able to deal with the bikes unexpected movements outwards.
Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 04:13:02 PM
That's a curious answer to me, I've ridden lots irl and have never heard of, or considered myself, the view to be a reason for this leaning? In my mind it's more to do with counter balancing, getting weight to the outside peg and being able to deal with the bikes unexpected movements outwards.
Maybe it's just the fact that as you do want to stick your inside leg out, then you have no other choice ...
Anyway, on this stuff I'd trust your experience more than my "intuition" any day.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 16, 2015, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 02:40:45 PM
I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view.
According to a friend (with better knowledge of MX than me), the "better view" reason is the main reason why one "counter-leans" in MX: you just need to have a better view of the track surface.
MaX.
Tip#8
http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups (http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups)
"The hardest place to make up time is on flat, hard, dry and slippery turns. Everybody is sliding around, and, in fear of spinning out, they back off the throttle to get traction. But, you can go through flat turns faster if you know the secret of weighting the outside peg.As you enter a flat turn, concentrate on putting weight (pressure) on the outside footpeg. As the bike is leaned into the turn, your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls. The best way to weight the outside peg is to place your knee against the tank and press down hard."
Quote from: rc4187 on February 17, 2015, 04:00:52 AM
Tip#8
http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups (http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups)
"The hardest place to make up time is on flat, hard, dry and slippery turns. Everybody is sliding around, and, in fear of spinning out, they back off the throttle to get traction. But, you can go through flat turns faster if you know the secret of weighting the outside peg.As you enter a flat turn, concentrate on putting weight (pressure) on the outside footpeg. As the bike is leaned into the turn, your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls. The best way to weight the outside peg is to place your knee against the tank and press down hard."
I don't doubt it works, but the given justification smells: I don't see how putting more pressure on the outside peg will load the suspension more than keeping the pressure on the two pegs.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 17, 2015, 09:25:35 AM
Quote from: rc4187 on February 17, 2015, 04:00:52 AM
Tip#8
http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups (http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups)
"The hardest place to make up time is on flat, hard, dry and slippery turns. Everybody is sliding around, and, in fear of spinning out, they back off the throttle to get traction. But, you can go through flat turns faster if you know the secret of weighting the outside peg.As you enter a flat turn, concentrate on putting weight (pressure) on the outside footpeg. As the bike is leaned into the turn, your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls. The best way to weight the outside peg is to place your knee against the tank and press down hard."
I don't doubt it works, but the given justification smells: I don't see how putting more pressure on the outside peg will load the suspension more than keeping the pressure on the two pegs.
MaX.
You can totally load the suspension weighing both pegs... the problem becomes a balance issue when weighing both in a corner. Putting weight to the inside of the bike makes the bike prone to low side.
Quote from: rc4187 on February 17, 2015, 07:22:41 PM
You can totally load the suspension weighing both pegs... the problem becomes a balance issue when weighing both in a corner. Putting weight to the inside of the bike makes the bike prone to low side.
Which is pretty different from Tip#8's explanation "your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls" :)
MaX.
I didn't want to get involved, but hey:
The outside leg putting pressure on the peg is forcing the bike upright. I know it might sound odd, but you know how bikes just want to stand up when accelerating. This outside leg pressure on the peg can be increased or decreased easily to help either keep the bike in a corner stance or to stop the bike from sliding out from underneath.
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
The outside leg putting pressure on the peg is forcing the bike upright. I know it might sound odd, but you know how bikes just want to stand up when accelerating.
That's a totally different thing.
The "pressure" one can put on a peg is due to gravity, it's the rider's weight. This is directed downward, no matter the lean angle of the bike.
If the wheels are on the ground, the bike is like an inverted pendulum: as soon as it's not vertical you won't be able to pick it up with only a downward force, no matter where you apply it, inside or outside. Give how close to the bike middle the pegs are (they extends just a little lo the left/right), even a small lean should make a force on the outer peg translate in the bike falling even more on the inside.
Again, I have no reason at all to doubt that "putting pressure on the outside peg" is the proper thing to do. It's just the explanation of why it is so that is still unclear to me.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 17, 2015, 08:29:38 PM
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
The outside leg putting pressure on the peg is forcing the bike upright. I know it might sound odd, but you know how bikes just want to stand up when accelerating.
That's a totally different thing.
The "pressure" one can put on a peg is due to gravity, it's the rider's weight. This is directed downward, no matter the lean angle of the bike.
If the wheels are on the ground, the bike is like an inverted pendulum: as soon as it's not vertical you won't be able to pick it up with only a downward force, no matter where you apply it, inside or outside. Give how close to the bike middle the pegs are (they extends just a little lo the left/right), even a small lean should make a force on the outer peg translate in the bike falling even more on the inside.
Again, I have no reason at all to doubt that "putting pressure on the outside peg" is the proper thing to do. It's just the explanation of why it is so that is still unclear to me.
MaX.
Actually - not saying you're wrong as I don't have a studied knowledge of physics, but I'm pretty sure the force on the peg from the outside leg isn't due to gravity, wouldn't it be due to the rider forcing his leg down into the peg, and with it half his body weight. There's a lot more being pushed onto the outside (or maybe more sensibly put 'top side') of the bike than just a foot on a peg. And in any case maybe you can enlighten me here, wouldn't it be centripetal force? i.e it doesn't just apply to the bike and rider cornering on the horizontal plane (keeping the rider in the seat) but also applies to the bike on the vertical axis? i.e if a rider suddenly stopped controlling a bike going around a flattish corner - the bike would try and upright itself and flip over? i.e:
A body following a curved path's direction is orthogonal to the velocity (the horizontal centripetal force) of the body towards the fixed point of the instantaneous centre (the ground) of curvature of the path.
It probably doesn't help that I am not talking from a physics standpoint, more just experience. And trying to highlight some things going on which people just go with as second nature, don't pay any attention to - and just do.
You're in a corner, the bike is down on it's side in a controlled corner, accelerating the bike tries to level out, you can control the balance between the bike trying to upright, and a potential slide out with the outside leg and the upright body position. Someone else needs to provide a more detailed explanation. I am unwell and going back to bed :-\
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
I didn't want to get involved, but hey:
That's what I get for being interested :)
Quote from: motopsycho87 on January 10, 2015, 01:47:41 PMThe biggest draw to me is online play, is it very active? ...doesn't have a hell of a following yet, just looking for some reassurance really that I'm not chucking my money away :)
If all you're after is online play, you'll be disappointed at the amount of people online at any given time. I bought it because I like Piboso's sims even if the servers are empty. Hope that changes since I want for MXB to succeed.
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:54:27 PM
Actually - not saying you're wrong as I don't have a studied knowledge of physics, but I'm pretty sure the force on the peg from the outside leg isn't due to gravity, wouldn't it be due to the rider forcing his leg down into the peg, and with it half his body weight.
The body weight is due to gravity :)
To "force your leg down into the peg" you have to hold yourself to something. What would that something be ? the only thing you can hold on to is the bike itself, so at best you're generating an internal force. If you hold yourself to the handlebars and push your leg into the peg, your' generating a force that tries to separate the bars from the peg: this does not translate into a downward force overall on the bike. It's internal.
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:54:27 PM
There's a lot more being pushed onto the outside (or maybe more sensibly put 'top side') of the bike than just a foot on a peg. And in any case maybe you can enlighten me here, wouldn't it be centripetal force?
That could be: as the body is under centrifugal force (being pushed outwards with respect to the turn), if you can transfer some of that force to the outer peg, you can have a force that helps you avoiding the bike falling inside.
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:54:27 PM
i.e if a rider suddenly stopped controlling a bike going around a flattish corner - the bike would try and upright itself and flip over?
In reality that depends on a lot of things, but I see what you mean.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 17, 2015, 08:29:38 PM
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
The outside leg putting pressure on the peg is forcing the bike upright. I know it might sound odd, but you know how bikes just want to stand up when accelerating.
That's a totally different thing.
The "pressure" one can put on a peg is due to gravity, it's the rider's weight. This is directed downward, no matter the lean angle of the bike.
If the wheels are on the ground, the bike is like an inverted pendulum: as soon as it's not vertical you won't be able to pick it up with only a downward force, no matter where you apply it, inside or outside. Give how close to the bike middle the pegs are (they extends just a little lo the left/right), even a small lean should make a force on the outer peg translate in the bike falling even more on the inside.
Again, I have no reason at all to doubt that "putting pressure on the outside peg" is the proper thing to do. It's just the explanation of why it is so that is still unclear to me.
MaX.
I guess all I can say to you is go out and ride and see how your theories hold up. All I know is the day I learned to weigh the outside peg was the day I could turn the throttle harder through a corner. I certainly won't get into a physics argument... but weight on outside peg = more traction.
Quote from: rc4187 on February 18, 2015, 04:42:12 AM
I guess all I can say to you is go out and ride and see how your theories hold up. All I know is the day I learned to weigh the outside peg was the day I could turn the throttle harder through a corner. I certainly won't get into a physics argument... but weight on outside peg = more traction.
But I never doubted this, I said in at least 3 messages above (4 with this one) that I do believe you and the other riders saying that this is true.
It's just the explanation provided that is unclear. But to ride you don't need the explanation :)
MaX.
This probably won't help but here goes anyway. In my mind counter leaning is about 2 things, the rider getting his weight above the leant over bike and perpendicular to the ground, but also lets the riders bike move beneath him without the rider adding his weight to the kinetic energy of the bikes drifting motion.