Topics

[It's a 1:1 scaling in all directions!]

It's been a long time since I did a track. Well, found a good opportunity... in a form of a nice 3D scan of a motocross track in Slovenia, Trbovlje MX. The initial track scan was made by mobilexcopter using a QT0x4 and released on Sketchfab (don't waste your time looking it's the only one there). I ported it into MXB and polished it a bit. Here is how it looks, side to side with a GoPro of the track (in winter, with a slightly different layout):

http://www.youtube.com/v/23DYZLTa21o

The track rides well, it's an old school style local MX track. It's a 1:1 scaling in all directions! No huge jumps, but some nasty elevation changes. Some very fast sections, some very slow sections. Overall, it's "medium rough" - ruts are there, it shakes you up a bit, some braking bumps, and some chewed up faces but nothing that will make you randomly fall. It is however a bit more difficult than most track we usually see. Textures are from the scan pictures - you ride on what you see! 20 people pit and gate.

First 3D scanned map in MXBikes and have to say it has turned out above my expectations. Have fun!

DOWNLOAD LINK ON MEGA

Credits:

• mobilexcopter on Sketchfab for the 3D scan
• TFC for the SkyBoxes and advice
• Sandbiter for the Trees
• Fabian van Dorst on Sketchfab for the tyres
• ... and last but not least Snappe for helping me sort out scaling (still no idea what's going on in Blender though).

For the curious:

• The scan was a 3D object that I turned into an 8k heightmap to work on.
  
• 95%+ of the on track heightmap is untouched. I just corrected a few holes and trees here and there.
  
• Had to basically redo the off track from scratch (fuck trees).
  
• Once all heightmap work was done: Gaussian Filter 2 pixel wide (removing noise and the "pebbles" from the track), scaling down to 2k. Any less filtering and it was unridable due to random kicks, and any higher resolution and the FPS was all over the place.

After trying several things with both stock and modified bikes, I have come to the conclusion that at least the rear shock settings don't work properly, if at all.

All tests done using MaxHUD suspension function with 1% setting for the bottoming out symbol, using stock 450f or several the OEM bikes (to make sure it wasn't a particular geometry causing it - they have the exact same suspension values in the cfg as the stock bikes).

- preload seems to function as it should
- spring rate seems to influence sag, but not as much as expected. Also barely influences compression an rebound behaviour.
- compression and rebound damping settings don't seem to do anything, or so little it is barely noticable.

An easy test is to try all extremes on an outdoor track. You'll bottom out your shock, whatever the setting, on the take off of most jumps. Even running a 60 spring rate and maxed out compression damping. As a test, I also modified the .cfg to double all values, and it still bottoms out.

So there is either an issue with the suspensions not calling the values in the .cfg, the garage not actually applying settings, or the values in the .cfg being way far off what they should be.

it appears the currently available BikeEd version (using the link on this forum) cannot load a geometry attached to a model that has the new flexible components.

With the new Alta, BikeEd works fine until we try to load the flexible version - using the exact same geometry file.

Noticed that the other day:

Your Direct Lean value will reduce by 1 each time you touch anything in your controller setup. Had it set at 100, and after messing with my settings, I realized it was at 88...

Reproducible easily - set it at a value, close it, open the setup again, fiddle with another value (may only work in the first page of the settings), validate, open the settings again, the Direct Lean will have gone down by 1.

Quite a few people have been complaining lately about the front brake being too brutal and the throttle response (of 450s in particular) being too unforgiving, causing front end wash-out, spinning or looping out from the rear.

To what I reply: "lol noobs".

More seriously, I think most people overlook their controller setup, in particular the "linearity" setting of their analog input. This controls how your controller input (CI) is translated into in game input (GI). Let me explain the linearity setting (when gain is at 100%):

What you always have:

• CI of 0 = GI of 0 (no controller input = no game input)
  
• CI of 1 = GI of 1 (max press on the controller = maximum game input. This is affected by the gain setting: with a gain of 75%, a CI of 1 = GI of 0.75...)

What linearity affects: everything in between.

• A linearity of one will reproduce the CI directly to the GI with no modification. CI of 0.5 = GI of 0.5. Blue curve in the graph.
  
• A high linearity value will put more strength in the first part of the controller input. For example, with a linearity of 150%, a CI of 0.5 = a GI of 0.75 (more or less). As a result, the end of the controller input range will have less effect. Green curve in the graph.
  
• A low linearity value will lower the impact of the early movement range of the controller on game input. A linearity of 75% for example will give, for a CI of 0.5, a GI of 0.35 (or something). Red curve in the graph.
  
  
  
  Now what does that mean in game? Easy. With a low linearity, you'll be able to feather more accurately the early response, at the cost of having a harder time being precise when going hard on the control. A high linearity does the opposite. I currently use around 75% both on front brake and throttle.
  
  Is it cheating? Nop. I'd even argue it's more realistic. The controller range is rather small and provides close to zero feedback.
  
  For braking, you normally would gauge the braking power by the number of fingers you are using + the resistance you are feeling. The controller doesn't provide that. By having a low linearity, I simulate the low resistance first part of the lever range. I don't mind losing accuracy in the end of the range, as hard braking is normally done without any lean angle – and in that case it's not semi-hard braking, it's hard braking. But now I can control better how I ease on the brake going in the corner, with more accuracy and response than when simply using the "smoothing" parameter.
  
  For throttle, it's the same reasoning. When you are griping a throttle, the range of movement is rather large – much more than a controller trigger. Doing a full 0 to 100% throttle on a bike is quite a movement for your wrist, you wouldn't normally do it – at least not at the speed you can do it with a controller. As with braking, you usually need to be careful with the throttle in its early movement range (say 0-50%, when exiting turns or when its slippery) and when you go hard, you don't go 80% hard. You go 100%.
  
  In the end, it solves a lot of issues that I think come from the lack of feedback and small movement range a controller has compared to IRL actions. Try it, you'll be surprised... (Disclaimer: it won't solve shitty setups and hammering controls :p ).
  

[The Deformation setting of the server influences the overall Grip of the track.]

We tested some stuff with TFC and Teeds, and since I have been focusing on "grip the last few days I can confirm this.

The Deformation setting of the server influences the overall Grip of the track.

Grip offline = grip with server deformation on 1.

Server deformation on 0.7: less grip. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) we tried with 0.2 but it didn't seem very different from 0.7. We rode quite a few laps on each setting, enough for deformation to kick in sufficiently to have comparable ruts.

Now that's an issue, since I suppose all parameters have been chosen offline, yet most of us like to use deformation settings below 1 online to avoid trenches.

(until we have more information on this I strongly encourage all hosts - thanks again for hosting - to use a deformation setting of 1).

Hey,

Been slaving trying to figure out why the OEM wouldn't allow online play.

While a bracket was indeed missing in the sfx.cfg file of the 250 OEM, it didn't fix the issue.

Note: the mods were installed in the game folder old school style (not the new mod folder in C:/Documents/Piboso/...).

Steps:

• Configure dedicated server, from the same install folder as the client.
  
• Start server with NO mods at all. Connect client --> works.
  
• Start server with 1 bike I took randomly (tried RMZ450, FC350, YZF250 - untouched except for a fixed sfx.cfg when needed). Connect client --> works.
  
• Start server with 2 bikes taken from the one working alone (ex: RMZ450+ FC350). Connect client --> crash.

It seems having more than 1 custom bike in the folder induces this crash. Not sure what else I can test to help now, let me know if I can do anything more.

(apologies for the server spam on the list, I was changing server name + port each time to make sure I had no conflict).

Edit: been given the advice by Vortex to clean up what I had left of "ghost" bikes and retry. On it atm.
Edit 2: references to temporary edf removed, no change. Still crashes.

[11.11.2020 OEM v0.15.1 – MegaBraap]

11.11.2020 OEM v0.15.1 – MegaBraap



Here we are! Updated OEM pack to introduce a new fantastic CR500AF, thanks to GioPanda, and update the entire KTM range to 2021 models, the YZF to 2020 and the CRF450 to 2021 - and obviously all bikes are now updated to the new possibilities offered by b15 and tuned by me to hopefully give you great fun (and realistic values). This means suspensions values and bike inertia are specific to this new batch of OEMs, as well as the engines. And last but not least, all bikes come with the best of Beyer's sound mods stock.

As this is more and more a team effort. Major thanks go to:

• philiaN for organizing everything and enabling many model updates
• iNsane for importing, animating and covering in mud the majority of the bikes
• Vortex_Damien for the Husky, RMZ and CRF 250 models
• Ruubs for the KX model
• Giorgio for the CR250 1997, CR500AF and KTM 2021 models
• LC Création on Discord for the TM model and the CRF450 2021
• mx965 on the MXS forums for letting us use the YZF 2020 models and skins.
• Stonerider for his work on (re)skinning some of the bikes.
• GreenLenux on Discord for the YZF paints
• Shack on Discord for amazing input on suspensions and discussions on the topic! We own that guy a big one when it comes to bike handling.
• All the other modders who made, imported, worked on some magic for the previous models we still use like TFC, RC, as well as ExtremeManiac and Benji on the MXS forums
• Beyer on Discord for his amazing sounds (I can't play without them, and from now on, neither will you )
• And of course, all the people who gave feedback, helped, and even donated to the OEM project!

Please take your time to read the whole post!
It's a 2 gigs DL, so don't tell me you don't have time...

Installation instructions
If you can read:

• Delete all your previous OEM bikes .pkz and folders.
• Download the full OEM v0.15.1 pack from either MEGA.nz or Mediafire. 2Gb so take your time.
• Unzip into your C:\Users\UserName\Documents\PiBoSo\MX Bikes\mods\bikes folder
• Done

The bikes can then be found in game in their own category: MX1 OEM and MX2 OEM for four strokes, MX1-2t OEM and MX2-2t OEM for 2 strokes, MX3 for the forum big cc bikes (currently only CR500AF). (server hosts: don't forget to enable those categories or put the server to Open if you want to allow those bikes).

If you cannot read and have the attention span of a dead octopus:
YouTube tutorial.

Note on "modded mods":
If you have custom skins and/or custom sounds installed in your OEM bikes folder, I trust you know a bit more about modding than the average user. As a reminder: back them up and don't blindly delete the skins. List of compatible bikes from v0.14 to v0.15 further down.

What's inside?
The pack currently contains 31 bikes, all original models that received the OEM treatment. This means that every single bike uses values and specs in accordance to their real life equivalent, as far as I could find them or extract them from pictures and reviews. This is valid for the geometry (wheelbase, rake angle...) and the engine (gear ratios, HP curve...). So each bike is unique – try them all!

• Alta MX and MXR 2018
• Honda CR 125 and 250 1996, CR250R 1997, CRF 250 2020, CRF 450 2021 and CR500AF
• Husqvarna TC 125 and 250 2020, FC 250, 350 and 450 2020
• Kawasaki KX(F) 250 and 450
• KTM 125, 150 and 250 SX 2021, 250, 350 and 450 SX-F 2021
• Suzuki RM 125 and 250 2003, RMZ 250 and 450 2020
• TM 250 and 450 MX Fi 2020
• Yamaha: YZ 125 and YZ 250 2017, YZF 250 and 450 2020

This means all the KTM 2020, the CRF450F 2020, the YZF250 and YZF450 2016 are OUT and no longer supported - their respective paints are not compatible with the newer models.

Significant changes this version

• Added CR500AF, model by Giorgio. There is a surprise there, make sure to check the garage!
• Added the KTM 2021 range to replace the 2020, thanks to Giorgio as well!
• Added the YZF250 and YZF450 2020 to replace the 2016 model, thanks to mx965 for letting us use it and iNsane for importing.
• All b15 improvements and tuning has been implemented - discover all the new settings in the garage.
• Suspensions have been tuned to be stiffer than MSM but more plush than previous OEMs. Let me know your feedback please!
• Changes to bike inertia have been fine tuned and are specific to each bike and vastly different from both MSM and previous OEMs.

All bikes have been registered so the races using them will count for ranking, even if the "Records" page might be slightly bugged currently

As the title says.

when updating to Beta7, do a clean install as explained here: http://forum.mx-bikes.com/index.php?topic=1914.0 otherwise you'll get issues.

The OEM bikes are currently NOT gonna work with Beta 7. The tyre format changed and I need to update every bike to call for the proper tyres (+ other misc values change).

[Is it planned to soften up the sand so it's "fluffy"?]

So, we were trying Southwick "clean" with a few people tonight to check out a deformation idea that seems to work well. Testing was done with OEM bikes and Geo tyres, wround 5 people for 1h30min.

What we noticed is that sand feels "gravel hard" without deformation but it's bearable.

The problem is that with deformation, the ruts become rock solid and it's very difficult to navigate: the deformation of sand is fast (like it should), fairly thin (the ruts could imo be broader and not as sharp on the edge in sand) - you end up with trenches that catch your wheel brutally.

Is it planned to soften up the sand so it's "fluffy"? If should feel like you are sinking in, which is not the case now. I don't think this can be currently modified in the tyre file though (or at least I don't know where).

Random thread of the day - post here when you find a channel you can't get enough of on the Tube.

Only rules: post the channel, post your personnal highlight.

My personnal random favorite: Life of Boris. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS5tt2z_DFvG7-39J3aE-Bq

Just a Slav guy going about Slav things. Hilariously.

highlight:
https://www.youtube.com/v/2-8gsWZqDBM

[But after some time playing them, what's your feedback in general?]

Hey,

Yeah, so, erm, I know I said I wasn't going to do all bikes as OEM but it turns out I did. Blame the shitty weather and boredom. As far as I know, there are no major flukes in the OEM bikes. All have been done the same way, following manufacturer's data, and have been out for some time now. A few things have been done following my own judgment (450f engine inertia and braking torque, 2 strokes engines, some chassis value for data missing here and there), but I would say nothing major.

Most importantly, I think every OEM in every category is competitive (except 2 strokes vs 4 strokes but that's realistic I guess). I can take any 250f and run 1:09 in SX2016Rd01, which is decent. To go lower, I need to find "my" bike and work on it, which is the way it should be I think.

I know from some people I have talked to that they stick to OEM bikes now (much love guys <3). But after some time playing them, what's your feedback in general?

- Does anything seem completly out or wierd?
- Any bike stupidly more / less competitive than other in your view, and if so, how?
- Have you found stuff that should be included that I overlooked?
- Have you had the chance to ride any bike in a comparative way IRL and any realism comments?
etc etc.

(for now, OEM are going to stay in their own category because of 1. tyres, and 2. making it easier for server and race hosts to select which kind of bikes they want).

[Server selection and interface]

Hey, thought I would compile all the suggestions regarding online play in one topic and attempt to keep it updated. I would say each section is in order of priority.


Server selection and interface

Server information text/link box
Server hosts should be able to add text to the server information to point people to a pack download.

Server display with/without track
Need a way to see a server even if we don't have the track it's running. Suggested a color code for the servername.

Current players name display
Would be nice if we could see who is playing on the server before connecting, to speed up the process of finding friends.

Friend list
... and down the road, have a kind of friend list which highlights servers in green when your friends are on it.


Voting system

Remove people not voting from the 2/3 voting count
A LOT of people go afk randomly, and it tends to block the votes. We need people not present to not count in the number of votes. Make the 2/3 of yes rule for votes casted only.

More voting options
On the top of my head:

• !vote drm : to reset deformation
  
• !set drmX: sets deformation value, giving a possibility to work up a track with deformation high and then freeze it.
  
• A kind of next track voting system.
  
  • !list tracks: displays the list of tracks on the server in order with their number
    
  • !vote nexttrack / !vote trackX: to move the server to the next track or trackX in the rotation. Also needed: jump clients with the server, don't kick them out.

During online play

Let people join the server during a Race
Don't prevent people from joining, but allow them to join as Spectator only and delay their bike load (or see next point).

People joining use your bike at first
Have people joining a server use YOUR OWN bike ghost and not their bike ghost to prevent the load lag. Complete model loading happens in the Garage, as it is now.

[... but why is noone talking about ForkOffset and Swing Arm Length?]

So we have a good suspension setup guide from Stonerider found here: http://forum.mx-bikes.com/index.php?topic=1463.0

... but why is noone talking about ForkOffset and Swing Arm Length?

Those two settings have, in my experience with OEM bikes, the most influence on the actual front and rear end behaviour of the bike - their combination resuting in drastic changing in feel and balance.

Those settings can be found in the Garage / Others tab / Geometry section.

Fork offset.

It's the distance between the fork and the steering axis. Most bikes have a default value between 22 and 25mm stock. Your offset value adds/removes from that. A 2mm change is already pretty big - 10%.

Decreasing this distance by putting a negative OffSet value generally:

• Shifts the bike weight to the front, increasing front grip, decreasing rear grip.
  
• Increases bike handling, giving a feeling of more controlled and sharper turning

If you find your chosen bike a big slugish with a fuzzy front end, go with -2 and that'll do wonders. Conversly, if you feel the rear end goes everywhere and only the front is reliable, +1 or 2 will change that.


Swing Arm Length.

This is the distance between the Swing Arm pivot point and the rear axle. A standard swingarm is around 590mm. The range of change is around 30mm. There are three positions: middle (1), short (0) and long (2).

A longer swingarm:

• Shifts bike weight to the front
  
• Tends to lessen any excessive wheelie issue
  
• Increases turn radius
  
• Gives a bit of a sluggish feeling when turning
  
• Makes the rear less twitchy when powersliding - the rear wheel will not move as much
  
• Makes the rear more mobile twitchy when it starts moving while breaking hard from the front

If you find you are losing the rear uncontrollably, try to go with a longer swingarm. Conversly, if you feel the bike is very rear heavy, a setting of 0 will help. Do not forget that changing the SwingArm Length changes how the rear shock is linked to the wheel! You will need to adjust your preload!

Setting interaction.

As you can see, the impact of some SwingArm settings overlap with the Fork Offset settings. But not all. So you can really impact the behaviour of the bike this way, and a chassis you don't gel with but love the engine off can be quite extensively modified to suit your style better.

Generally, a change of 1 step in swingarm length changes the weight distribution as much as 2 steps in fork offset.

As a rule of thumb, this is valid only when your suspension are properly tuned. A change in offset / length will never stop a fork from bottoming out, or a shock from being too hard and making you lose grip because it skims over terrain. Set you sag, get a good ballpark of Bump/Rebound values. THEN change fork offset and swingarm length. You will maybe fine tune the suspension again afterwards, but you'll be at least working in the right direction.


Hope that helps!

[Multiplayer]

Going to try to keep a beta6 bug list updated. Feel free to contribute, document properly if possible. That means:
- description of the bug (what it is, where / how it happens)
- how to reproduce it

Multiplayer

Gravity not affecting other players fully
- When jumping, even is all is fine for your own bike and rider, it appears that other players are not affected by gravity fully (I'd say they have half). They jump, fly high and far but with a normal trajectory. When they land on their computer (which is, for other players, still way high almost at apex), their bike warps back to the ground.
- Seen and reproduced anytime, any ping, online with everyone. Might be linked to the distance to the other player (very close is smooth, a few meters away it starts being choppy).

Stock bike mismatch
Some people have reported that with a fresh install, trying to join a stock server (no mods running), they get "bike mismatch".
Not reproducible nor predictable (?)
Afaik, Teeds had it but retrying without changing anything let him through, Mattias has it, no idea if fixed.

Bandwidth Setting
It appears the Low setting on the bandwidth parameters provides a smoother multiplayer movement. Placebo? Tried with Philian, it felt smoother with Low rather than high.

Multiplayer loading
It feels like people logging on will cause the same "loading lag" whether they log on a server with a new bike or a bike already present and loaded on the server. Multiple loading of the same model (possibly justifies why people core like hell above a certain number of players).

Setup

Setting resets
For some people, the bike setup sometime bugs out and doesn't load, giving a value of 1 everywhere.


Riding

Landing seated bug
Remnant from beta 5. When you jump higher than a meter, if you land while sitting a tad to fully on the back, you auto dismount 90% of the time. Even when landing soft as a feather.

Deformation
Seen last night in SX: way too many laps run on the same track, at one point at a heavily rutted location, a spike appeared. It is similar to what you get when you change the heightmap without resetting deformation when creating a track and trying it out in game. It looks like a fez pixels of the heightmap assign themselves the maximum height value. Never seen it playing solo.

Deformation
Deformation is not continuous between 2 different materials, even if the masks used overlap with a transparency gradient. The ruts stop pretty abruptly and give a wierd kick when you ride over them. Example on FTT, transition between Soft Soil and Sand (see left side):

Hey,

any blender pro to explain to me how to easily lay object onto a heightmap?

I know already how to import and scale properly a heightmap so it becomes a proper 3D object I can use as a reference to place objects. But I'm NOT tuning X,Y, Z and rotation for every toughblock... Any idea? I'd use sketchup but my trial version ran out and I would like to use more things from blender.



This ain't gonna toughblock itself

I'm trying to have dark, sharp shadows cast by terrain (the actual textured heightmap, not an object) onto itself. I can't manage. Played with params.ini and .amb to no avail.

Any tips?

[standard]

Hi all.

Rounding up the japanese line-up, here is the 2017 Honda CRF 250R and 450R.

The CRF250R has been modeled by J4KAW, imported in game by StoneRider. Original release topic here: http://forum.mx-bikes.com/index.php?topic=1402.0



The CRF450R has been modeled by Vortex_Damien, imported in game by RC. Original release topic here: http://forum.mx-bikes.com/index.php?topic=1407.0



Both models have two versions:

The standard version has as true as I could geometry to real model geometry, refined weight repartition, along with some suspension value changes in the cfg.

The OEM has the same geometry changes, with real engine map, weight, gearing, refined engine inertia and braking torque for the 450, brake sizes, etc. New for beta6: 3 different engine maps.

As of 17.03.2017, all bikes now have chassis flex and an updated HP curve due to finding a really good source.

Why are the two models different? Ask Honda, they updated the 450 for 2017 but not the 250. The 450 is missing dirtmaps because I just can't do it properly. Rather have a beautiful clean bike than one covered with what looks like shitstains :p

Both bikes are rather easy to ride, somewhere between the Yamaha and the Suzuki in terms of handling and engine. I find them very enjoyable. Feedback is welcome as usual, let me know if something slipped through or if they have wacky behaviour. Enjoy, and thanks again to the original creators for letting me fiddle with the geom and my OEM crap

Honda CRF250R and 450R OEM + Std (only stock paint) v2.1: DOWNLOAD.

Remember that all OEM bikes require GeoTyres mod: http://forum.mx-bikes.com/index.php?topic=1451.0



List of updates included for Beta6:

Standard bikes:
- added chassis flex

OEM bikes:
- added chassis flex
- added engine mapping: 3 different engine maps ("dynos") to chose from (difference is enough to feel it, not enough to give a clear winner. Talking 1 to 2 hp depending on model and RPM). Those are based on Honda approach to maps and some dynos I found and should mimick the Mode Switch on the CRF handlebars. Changing map is done in the Garage and should be saved as every other setup option.

• Standard: Stock map. Gives the most balanced power curve. (slightly different from v1.0 as I have found a great dyno source, <3 DirtBike Magazine dyno runs). Your everyday dyno.
  
• Smooth: Smoothes out the Balanced map to give a more linear feel and better traction all the way to the rev limiter at the cost of some HP. Great when traction is low -mud, hard packed- or when having troubles keeping the rear wheel in check.
  
• Aggressive: Takes some hp away from the low RPMs to put them back in the higher RPM range. For people with a rev limiter fetish.

Wondering what I should do next. Stop, something, whatever. Vote.

[Basically, there is ~52% rear bias]

Yop. Need some input - will start technical but got a TLDR at the end :p .

Found some new data about mass distribution on dirt bikes. Basically, there is ~52% rear bias (52% of the total mass is on the rear tyre, 48% on the front one). Measured with one bathroom scale under the frontwheel one under the rearwheel, Now I'm trying to port this in properly.

If we assume the other masses locations are correct or very easy to place(steer, suspensions, wheels and brakes have to be on point), and neglect the height différences between front and rear in BikeEd, the only unknown is Chassis weight position. Steer and Rear Susp weight could be moved around but they are ~15% of chassis weight each and leave not a lot of room for positioning, so we'll neglect that for now and keep their positioning free handed.

This means chassis weight forward position (between front/rear wheel) can be calculated.

I made an excel thing for that, and it comes out that our chassis weight in BikeEd should be much more toward the back. Trying out the results in game, the bike is much, more more stable from the rear and doesn't lose much front grip. This is especially noticable when breaking hard, the rear doesn't wiggle around. SX behaviour is much more natural too (front suspension doesn't work as hard - less bottoming out - more even behaviour).

Height-wise, the engine is around 66% of the weight of the whole chassis thing. So I'm placing it 1/3 of the way between the lowest chassis point ("Ground Clearance" cursor in BikeEd) and the seat height. This is still a WIP - the important bit is how forward the weight is. The tests I ran also had some "classic height" positioning and gave very similar results for most purposes.

TLDR: it appears chassis weight should be located a bit lower and significantly more towards the back of our geometry models and it seems to give better in game behaviour.

New:


Old:


Thoughts?