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Hmm ... rewording properly, I guess what bearded4glory is asking is a mode where the stick position dictates a "target lean rate" instead of a "target lean angle".
This means: the more you push the stick to the right, the quicker the bike leans to the right. When you center the stick, the bike keeps the current lean.

I don't think it's less noble than the current target lean, even if for sure it's not any "purer" (pure = direct steer).
What I don't know is if it is any better. Could be interesting to try.

MaX.

Yea, I mean something where you could have a % of hardcore mode mixed with the "stock" mode is sort of what I am looking for.  There would be parameters (behind the scenes or adjustable up to dev team) that control how user input is used and when to help balance the bike.  The idea is to get the feeling of counter steering the bike to bring it upright after a turn without having to balance it for a desired lean angle.

I guess my feeling (and the feeling of a lot of people who have commented elsewhere) is that it feels too "arcadey".  While the behind the scenes simulation may be more complicated than other comparable games or sims the user does not experience much of that.  Lots of us are looking for a more challenging sim with more user input required to make a clean lap.  I don't necessarily want it to be perfect at holding a lean angle but require me to make corrections at the same time.  Hardcore mode is more similar to what I am looking for vs. non hardcore mode its just very hard to control at low speeds aninkd in tight corners so some help there would make it perfect.  In a pinch I think I could probably learn it given enough time, in the hour or so I have played with it I have made probably 1/2 a clean lap on the Practice track and I am not going to be the best rider so I bet there are people that could easily do a full lap.

Its hard to say exactly how to accomplish this, obviously I am under qualified for the job or I would have already done it and made millions.  Maybe a max steering angle of correction based on bike speed would be something to look into.  Then the user would still need to make corrections but the bike would try to stay upright to an extent.

Piboso, I am sorry if I have given you the wrong impression about me.  I am not being critical of you or your methods I am just trying to give my feedback on how I think the sim could be improved as far as the user experience.  It really comes alive when you remove all the assists and turn on hardcore mode but maybe I am not quite hardcore enough for that.

Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

How do you even keep up with DirectSteer? It feels nothing like mxs to me :p All i do is fall over.

Well its definitely extreme because there is no stabilizer at all.  I don't know exactly how it works in MXS but all those parameters in the Advanced Stability are there to help the rider keep the bike from just falling over.  In MXB with Direct Steer enabled you have to countersteer constantly to keep the bike from falling all the way over but if the "non-hardcore" stabilizer helped it would be similar to MXS.

If we could set a mix between the 2 so that the stabilizer would only help keep the bike up but not stand it up straight that would probably be a decent attempt for right now but IDK if Piboso is interested in working on "Hardcore Mode" he seems more fond of the regular mode.

There is no more work to do on the hardcore modes, except tuning of the torque for mode 2.
Unless you want external, fake, forces to keep the bike from falling, that are out of the question.

What I am hoping for is some sort of combination between the automated balancing that is done in the non hardcore mode and the non existent balancing in hardcore mode.  Basically if moving the steer stick adjusted the target lean angle and stayed at that new angle if no more input was made (stick centered) or something like that.

This is without the use of any external fake forces, just changing how and when the computer helps the user balance with the already implemented balancing you have developed.

But hey it is your sim, you can do as you wish.

Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

How do you even keep up with DirectSteer? It feels nothing like mxs to me :p All i do is fall over.

Well its definitely extreme because there is no stabilizer at all.  I don't know exactly how it works in MXS but all those parameters in the Advanced Stability are there to help the rider keep the bike from just falling over.  In MXB with Direct Steer enabled you have to countersteer constantly to keep the bike from falling all the way over but if the "non-hardcore" stabilizer helped it would be similar to MXS.

If we could set a mix between the 2 so that the stabilizer would only help keep the bike up but not stand it up straight that would probably be a decent attempt for right now but IDK if Piboso is interested in working on "Hardcore Mode" he seems more fond of the regular mode.

Yea, I tried MaxTorque but it was not what I was expecting.  DirectSteer is more what I had in mind and more similar to MXS.

I tried out "Hardcore" mode today.  This is more like it!

MXS people need to try this out, its like the first day I downloaded MXS all over again.

Paste this into documents/Piboso/MX Bikes/profiles/"your profile"/profile.ini

Code Select Expand

[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=-30

If there was some logic in the game to know when to allow you to turn the bars more or less then I think it would work really well.  Also if the current "stabilizer" (sorry not sure if that is what you call it Piboso) helped you out depending on lean angle and stuff it would be exactly what I am looking for.

Its a pain to get out onto the track but the back 1/2 of the Practice Track is where it shines, nice flowing turns on those sweepers and way more control on the straights.

OK got it.. don't know why it wasn't working before, but using gimp I seem to have found a way lol

How about scale? how the hell do you know if your track is WFO or tiny until you get it in game?

If you know how big you want a jump to be or the width of the track for example you can just measure how many pixels said feature is and do some math to figure out the proper scale.  We of course dont know exactly what scale will ride best but I would think maybe slightly over scaled but that is up to each creator.

The scale is real world units IDK about blender but 3ds seemed to do a fine job of exporting in imperial units and it came into mapviewer (this was track objects) at the proper scale even though it is metric.

I have been having trouble with mine as well.  I am curious if Snappe can tell us what is the minimum stuff required to get it in game to quickly test the displacement map and make quick changes.  I have had the game crash before and I redo everything and then it works but there didn't seem to be any difference.

Also, is it possible to leave no track centerline just to test?  It would be great to test without centerline and just reset where you fell.

but with the steering id like to change the "leaning" to steering. I want full control of that steering!!
direct steering the bars instead of "leaning"  is where I think it needs to be. in gp bikes leaning works great because you only need to steer slightly. but on a dirtbike you are doing such tight turns and using the steering in the air to control the bike. even when on "direct" steering the steering is over ridden by something and feels unnatural. having full control I believe will fix most steering problems including control in air!

That's very very unlikely.

In GPB it is possible to have direct steering (there are even two different flavors of it), it's a option buried in a .ini file (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0).
But it's extremely hard to use. For start, you should have a force feedback device (like a g27 wheel), otherwise it makes little sense (at least in one of the two variants).
Then, at low speed it's a nightmare,as the bike is very unstable and sensitive to what you do with the handlebars.

MaX.

Does this work in MXB?  I may have to try it.

I sort of saw this coming, since there are 2 groups of people coming from different games/sims and converging on this one there are going to be fundamental disagreements on what people prefer in how the game feels.  IMO the way MX Bikes is now is more similar to how MX Sim is with arcade mode enabled.  As it sits the bike is doing too much steering without my input.  When I notice that I am drifting left I steer right but it is doing its own thing and messes up what I have already done.  To be a Sim IMO it needs to rely more on user input and less on targeting a lean angle.  I don't really care how that happens I just need to take back more of the control from the computer.  I don't think end user control should be sacrificed in the name of making a sim easier, MXS has proven that people are willing to take the time to learn how to play a game even if it takes months to make a single clean lap.  Do I think it needs to be that extreme?  No I don't.  But I think there is somewhere in the middle that is optimal.

Obviously it is a few days after Beta 1 release and this is not a final build so I don't want to be harsh.  I think that the graphics are really great and I want to make some really cool tracks (this is why I am so worried about it).  That said, the direction that the dev team goes with this issue will make or break the game for a lot of people.  Personally if it is a refined version of this then it is not something that I would be willing to invest time into content creation because I won't enjoy the end product of my work.

I know each dev has a direction they want to travel and often times it is hard to get them to investigate alternatives.  We have seen it countless times in MXS and I would just urge Piboso and Snappe to really read everyones feedback and take it into consideration.  Play around with the physics and don't limit yourself to one way of thinking.  If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

Hey Sandbiter, plan on releasing the AX track? I'm curious how those jumps will work in game.

I tried some SX yesterday, it is rough.  I need to make a big terrain with like 10 variations on scale and height to find the best one and then I will release it.

2. The automatic centering of the bike after making any turning movement on the joystick is completely unnecessary. In fact I may consider this to be the #1 issue, and may be why the cameras feel odd in the first place, but I digress. It feels as though you may have boosted the gyro effect or added some form of stabilizing effect which completely takes proper fine control away from the player.  (I'm guessing not, but something isn't right here). It makes turning feel delayed to your input and hard to correct and judge. The in air controls may be affected by this strange auto centering force as well. I know it's stupid to compare, but the way Mx simulator handles the bike leaning is the way to aim for. You should be the one to bring the bike back up for the most part, not the game.

There's a "Direct lean" option in the input settings, this will avoid the "delay effect" and what you call the "self centering" (which is in fact not a self-centering, but just a slow response to your stick going back to middle).

The leaning will become much more twitchy (you may want to use smooth and play with linearity). After years and years of GPB, i still don't get how people can play without "direct lean" set to ON. Notice however that in GPB the vast majority of the players use Direct lean OFF (unchecked).

MaX.

IDK if you have played MX Simulator, seems like you have come from the GP bikes side.  In MXS if you want to turn right you move the stick to the right until you are leaned over enough then let it return to center.  Then it will stay like that until you move the stick left of center (the leveling amount does bring it up on its own but you virtually always have to correct it).  I feel like Direct Lean is dictating the bike lean angle with the stick vs. the fork angle that is a completely different thing.  I did try it and in some cases I liked it better and in some I thought it was horrible (mostly jumping).

The bike standing up just seems erratic to me and sometimes it works perfect and sometimes it over or under corrects and it takes too long to make the correction manually so I end up in the grass or one of the fences.  I think this feel works well in GP Bikes (I got that a while back and it is very good) it just doesn't feel right on a lighter bike at lower speeds.  In comparison a dirt bike should be much faster to change directions and more nimble.

Its funny that you say that you have front end washing issues, I feel like there is way too much traction everywhere.

My short list for now:
1.Wider angle 1st person view
2.Rider front/back lean has too much influence on the bike IMO
3.No gyro using rear brake in air
4.Turning just doesn't feel like turning on a dirt bike it feels like turning on a street bike.
5.Front end knifing over bumps, its like my arms are made of Jello.
6.Sometimes the bike will go forever after I fall off it, this isn't realistic for a dirtbike on uneven ground

Overall I am enjoying it, if the turning was a little more rear wheel based I think it would feel a lot better.  I agree the rider should stay more vertical and lean the bike more under him, that view would be great.  Had a couple good battles online with some randoms it was fun until I got stuck on one of the hills on Budds.

Nice work so far.

Has anyone gotten a custom track in yet?  I have been trying but it wont show up when I try to select it.

I don't care about the cooler just if I put the CPU in the wrong direction or have a little static on my hands I can fry it.  It just sketches me out cuz its one of the most expensive pieces but can be damaged easily.

Hahaha, that is classic.  Every time I put a CPU in I get all freaked out that I am going to screw it up but nothing else bothers me.

Looks good Moto28.  Wasn't to hard to build and get setup right?

For the love of god reroute those fan cables so they aren't detracting from all your hard work!