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The virtual rider tries to calculate if the bike is under or over-steering. In case of under-steer, it steers more, the opposite in case of over-steer.
So it's not true that counter-steering only happens when initiating a lean. It also happens in case of steady lean and over-steer.

That's very interesting. Can you define exactly (I mean in technical terms) what you call under/over steering ?

Is it what's called "steering ratio" in the Cossalter book (ratio between the effective and kinematic steering angles or, identically, between kinematic and real radius of curvature of the trajectory) ?

MaX.

Sliding the rear of a motocross bike under acceleration is very much a basic motocross skill (1) and happens very often (2).

Easier or harder than on road bikes ? 'Cause road bikers says the same: sliding the rear on the throttle should be fairly easy.

From what I see, it is more frequent (and likely easier) in MX. What do you think ?

MaX.

Opposite lock is in GPbikes too, when people back it in on the brakes the rider automatically keeps the front wheel tracking the direction of movement.

Yes, but only because the player is pushing the stick to lean the bike.
In GPB it countersteer because you tell him to lean the bike.

MaX.

The virtual rider has a control for yaw, too.

Yes, but the players hasn't. What is the "target yaw" ? Aligned with the bike's velocity vector ?

The only way I can try to slide the rear is: put weight on the front (i.e. offload the rear) and ... ask GPB/MXB to lean: there's no other input one could use.

When "powersliding" I can understand (on the angle, open throttle, rear loses grip and slides out, virtual rider countersteers to fight the yaw movement), but entering a corner (as in MXB) that's not what happens, no ?

MaX.

Opposite lock is in GPbikes too, when people back it in on the brakes the rider automatically keeps the front wheel tracking the direction of movement.

Yes, but only because the player is pushing the stick to lean the bike.
In GPB it countersteer because you tell him to lean the bike.

MaX.

Up to Piboso to confirm, but if the "virtual rider" (the piece of code that translates your target lean input into a handlebar torque) is anything similar to the one of GPB (which I think), then it hasn't got the notion of "drifting" or "opposite lock" or "counter-steering" (in the MX sense). If you ask to lean left it will steer right, because that's what will initiate the left lean, not because that's what to do when drifting.

I think that in the video above, what you call "opposite lock" is just the virtual rider trying to lean the bike more.

MaX.

Thanks EdouardB ! That clarifies things a bit indeed on the usage of the term.

And your description of the gyro effect is, as expected, the good one

MaX.

On this forum a lot of people speak about the "gyro effect".
I'm sure 90% of them do not know what this is and just misuse the term.
MaX.

I hope I didn't when I meant to use it in reference to counter-steering and maneuvering with gas/brake/steering whether on the ground or mid-air, like scrubs and whips and stopping the rear tire for that pop or panic revving to save an endo. I think that would encompass the use of gyroscopic effect of both wheels. I like the improvements made in beta2 and am very excite he already has a beta3 thread.

You didn't, hence all fine

Only remark would be that usage of gas/braking may not always involve gyro effect (e.g. perfectly vertical bike mid-air going straight, what you get with gas/brake is not a gyro effect but a simple action/reaction thing).

I'm not here to argue, looks like you are. Yup, stoked for beta 3 as well

OK for not arguing, I just hate people posting wrong explanations masked as true stuff. Bad for the community.

MaX.

[@hornetmax]

@hornetmax simply put; the faster the wheels spin the more the bike will want to follow a set path.take it from here haha 

That's not a bad description of the gyro effect actually.
Not sure if you know what happens when you turn a spinning wheel around an axis perpendicular (orthogonal) to the spin one ... but it's not a bad start.

Centrifugal force among other factors. I no physicists but apparently you are, so I'll let you take it from here haha 

Your first sentence above proves your second.

No offence intended, but how can you make claims like the one you made ("Riding a street bike and riding a dirt bike are 2 completely different things other than the gyro effect point blank.") then ?!

There are many many things in common from a physics stand point. As said, that doesn't mean one rides the two kind of bikes in the same way. But saying things like "the only thing in common between he two is the gyro effect" is ... uh, wrong

MaX.

[@Stoneybonezz:]

Riding a street bike and riding a dirt bike are 2 completely different things other than the gyro effect point blank.

On this forum a lot of people speak about the "gyro effect".
I'm sure 90% of them do not know what this is and just misuse the term.

@Stoneybonezz: what do you mean with "gyro effect" ?

MaX.

Seriously, how many times will this video be thrown out there.

1. Yes I am certain, as the rear end of the bike slides out you counter-steer to keep it in balance. Same is true for a car, like in drifting.
2. The pic of the bikes above show them counter-steering very clearly.
3. They are all turning left, all have their bars countered to the right (push on left handgrip like in video), and all are sliding their rear out to the right.

The effects of counter-steering on a motocross bike are in principal the same as a road bike, but it is WAY different. You don't ride a motocross bike anything like you do a street bike. Hard to explain, but there is so much more going on with a motocross bike.

Counter-steering is (also) used to act on the lean (roll): leaning the bike gives you the lateral force (on the rear tire) that allows you to control how much the rear "slides out".

I do see your point of car drifting, but cars do not lean, that makes a hell of a difference (tires have very little camber).

But I do agree on the fact that you don't ride a motocross bike anything like you do a street bike, of course

MaX.

I ride at 6% direct lean. Greatly helps sharp cornering and overall control of the bike. The less the better I feel. I rode 0 stability in mx sim for the same reason. After the counter steering is fixed I'll be throwing the bike through turns all day, but as soon as you lose traction you fall.

What has to be fixed in counter-steering ?

MaX.

LOL

MaX.

Unless you're using direct steering, your stick is not controlling the handlebar but the target lean angle.
If you're leaning left and push your stick right, the bars will go left (and pick up the bike).

MaX.

I don't really know why, but I find the MXB 1st person views (especially the 2nd one) much more bearable than GPB ones: I've been almost immediately at ease with MXB 1st person but I'm still not in GPB.

MaX.

Physics is ok.
Engine sound is not, but unfortunately there is no time to download the mods and check them.
Sandbiter was so kind to send a message asking for permission. Other modders apparently don't care. Shame on them.

I would be with you if the sound was to be used outside MXB/GPB/WRS/KRP (which btw can't be done easily, as the sound files are encrypted), but within your sims, is it really a problem ?
Unless the modder is claiming any specific right on the sound files, I don't think it could be seen as some sort of breach of the deal between you and the sound creator.

MaX.