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SX2016 Rd01: Anaheim 1 (with GRE)

Started by Asdrael, June 14, 2016, 09:19:08 PM

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Asdrael

June 14, 2016, 09:19:08 PM Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:35:46 PM by Asdrael
And for my second track, we go back to Round 01 of the SX2016 series!



(And yes that's me scrubing the finish :D).

This is a replica of the track on racing night, which differs notably from the blueprint (one less table, rythm sections have jump sizes switched around). 1.1:1 scale again as it suits what I am trying to achieve with replica SX more.

Thanks to the feedback received after my first track (Rd02), a few changes have been made:
  • Supercross triples have a higher and steeper landing.
  • Rythm sections flow better for all riding styles. Try starting with a single, double or try the triple in!
  • Terrain textures have shadow maps on them.
  • There are 2 tracks in the download. The normal one -regular name- has collision enabled on toughblocks. This is more realistic, and I worked a lot on centerline placement in combination with toughblocks placement so that, in 1h of normal play, I did not get one single cross-lane reset. It is the one intended for online racing. If you try goon enough and cross jump, sure you will manage... but then, introducing the GRE, or "GoonRidingEdition(tm)", does not have any collision and is intended for getting you up to racing speed for online play.
  • Terrain should now provide slightly better grip and feel more controlable.
I was aiming at an easier to access but harder to master track than the first one. Overall, it has more spots where you can make the difference - and this time, the difference will be made on getting your lines and rythm down rather than trying to charge one single corner exit, as every obstacle is easily doable. Just find a way to make them flow together. It is much more technical than the first track as it requires a great jumping technique to do a full lap using the "real" lines (angled jumps, cutting on take-off, seat bouncing...). It is however much easier to cruise around at medium speed and feel satisfied. On a 250F, you need to push it hard to get good laps down. The 450F has more line choices and relies more on throttle control.

I tried invisible walls, but it just felt wrong. The duo-track solution is imo a good compromise. And I know the shape of the "gate table" is shitty to ride on, but look at the footage from the event, it was even worse ;)

Download link on MEGA.NZ
Feedback welcome, and enjoy!

Known issues:
- Shadows on toughblocks with collision enabled looks darker than without
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BadStar

Dude, I'm so excited to get home! Thank you so much for bringing SX, especially 2016 into mxb!!
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BadStar

June 15, 2016, 12:26:56 AM #2 Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 02:48:42 AM by BadStar
Finally got home to ride the track!


Very nice man, much better for both 250/450!!

Comment's are from 250f because I am sure the 450 makes quick work of anything.

The first set of whoops are very nice! The 2nd set are very hard to manage and make the triple a near miss (this may be due to low amount of time on track but drastic difference b/w the 2 set of whoops)   EDIT:: Nevermind.. it was me, the 2nd set of whoops are manageable!

I think its the 2nd right hand turn is maybe too steep? Very easy for the beta physics to wash or simply fall over.. hitting the 1st triple on the 2 rhythm sections is amazing because you really have to push it! but i think the turn I mention on the 1st section sometimes washes you out too easy.

Love the section (sand) after the finish!

question for my realism nerd mind..
-Is the roller/table at the starting line also suppose to be that short? I know its accurate style/type. (once again, great if it is)

MXB beta physics, question for all SX style tracks..
-Should whoops be scaled to match the current physics or just practice to master and hope the physics catch up?
EDIT:: I think this track has a good standard for sx whoops, especially the 1st section.. maybe tweak rnd02?


These tracks are great and I can't wait to see the quality increase as you go, great work! I have been wanting sx on mxb! Major props as you have already brought 2 sx rounds to us in little time!
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Paradox28

I haven't seen it mentioned so nice work on the replay cameras as well!

Asdrael

June 15, 2016, 12:03:23 PM #4 Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 12:06:57 PM by Asdrael
Thanks for the feedback, glad you guys like it but find it hard. That was the point!

Any thought on the regular vs GRE versions? Are toughblocks 'fine'? I'm finding it more thrilling to ride with the collision, and I'm cleaner as well as I know I cannot charge and pray. If people agree on this, I will make the collidable blocks the standard and the only one registered online (no version registered online yet as I am waiting to see which one people prefer).

Quote from: BadStarComment's are from 250f because I am sure the 450 makes quick work of anything...
- Actually the 450f has higher requirement on throttle control and timing, which enables shorter lines in turns and tripling after doubling easily. I suspect the laptimes will be less consistent for the average rider, with hotlaps at best 1 or 2s faster.
- Not commenting yet on the whoops and turns, waiting on more feedback. I used a "trick" though, so let's see who picks it up :p
- The table on the gates is a mix between blueprint (short table, long landing) and the real one (long table and almost vertical landing). I made it as close as possible to the real one, while keeping it working with MXB current physics. It was made to be very precise imo: land as well as you can to go WFO as soon as possible. Watch the GoPro of the event and you'll see what I mean - they all soften the jump, often "casing" or landing almost flat after.
- As for the whoops, trying out different things. The real ones (3' high 8' spacing on average) don't work properly. This round has 2 different sets, and once again a trick was used. Waiting on more feedback before seeing how I can move on.

Quote from: geofanatecMan these tracks are hard!...
I find this one easier than Rd02 as the "intermediate level" rythm are more manageable, and -when you are used to it- it's easy to see you won't make the big line and slow down to take an easier approach without just crashing. It is however VERY setup reliant (the base setup on the YZ2250F is a good start for intermediate level, stiffen the fork as you go faster... and see what fits you), and the technique requirement is quite high for this one. As you could see, line and rythm are the keys there, which is what I wanted.

Quote from: Paradox28I haven't seen it mentioned so nice work on the replay cameras as well!
Yay someone noticed :p I love the Buggy sideline one, and the SkyCam was implemented to spectate online racing one the long draw distance is fixed in next beta.


Going to see if I can get a recording setup to post a lap today.
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𝖙𝖋𝖈

I'd love to see a lap.. Also want to ride some more before giving proper feedback but I am struggling with the rhythm section. I find I can nail a double or triple landing in perfectly but the next jump throws my front end sky high no matter what :(.. I had 2 fantasy SX tracks working perfectly in beta 3 and find the front end bounce or rebound made them both unrideable..

Still, great job, love the whoops and forgot to comment on the replay cams last time, they're great and nice to see someone adding them!

Will ride some more and add more later!

Asdrael

Quote from: TheFatController on June 15, 2016, 12:11:00 PM
I'd love to see a lap.. Also want to ride some more before giving proper feedback but I am struggling with the rhythm section. I find I can nail a double or triple landing in perfectly but the next jump throws my front end sky high no matter what :(.. I had 2 fantasy SX tracks working perfectly in beta 3 and find the front end bounce or rebound made them both unrideable..

Still, great job, love the whoops and forgot to comment on the replay cams last time, they're great and nice to see someone adding them!

Will ride some more and add more later!

Thanks :) Fiddle around with the setup. I rode it with 5 or 6 different bikes, and I find that each bike requires a slightly different setup. If you use the RMZ 1.2, the front end will skyrocket no matter what. I couldn't find a work around. Also, if you still get nose-high on every jump, you might be not landing flat enough / overjumping a bit / charge the rear too much. Keep at it, my current problem is overjumping so... to each his own :p
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StoneRider

first of all i got to say that i take so much pleasure riding your sx track. i'm a true fan of supercross and this is so cool to have those two. i think you find the good setup for the whoops, triple kicker and common rythme jumps. But i that the reception of your triples have to be more high, as high as the kicker actually. i also think that your berms have to be higher too, and stiffer and i think they have to continue more on the track. you need to make them longer i don't know if you see what i mean... ^^ anyway, i ride with the 250rmz and i'm able to triple in easily but i just CAN'T triple the rest of the rythme. The second triple just don't jump for me. i tried many diffeent setup but... no way.

Here is my feedback thanks again dude keep it up !

BadStar

Yea, I think the challenge is..sx replica's vs beta physics..

It needs a little tweaking toward physics and slightly away from replica. I agree that I can triple in and its so sweet, but I have to break and make the next double..no other option without major gamble on 250.

Everything is sooo close to being excellent, just needs some tweaking for the bikes handling.. the front end shooting to the sky is a real issue.. fixed by breaking and leaning forward, but that shouldn't be the only viable option every time.

Once again, super love these tracks

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BadStar

Just to mention.. (please don't bash mxs, I like it also)

Mxb has something special that made me play it over mxs. The physics and engine, even though they need work, they stand out big time for me. Watch Youtube sx with mxs and see how FAST they ride..landing into ruts and shooting back into the rhythm..this is very unrealistic to me. Watch a replay of MXB on your tracks and its easy to see how much more realistic the pace is and that you actually have to encounter the berms/ruts, jumps with more precision and not so arcade like.

With that said, Mxb + SX scaled to fit the physics as it developes, is the leader in mx simulation at the moment. This is not a fan opinion but a matter of simple observation.

So I think it doesn't hurt to have a track slightly off scale to make up for physics.

So glad you guys are apart of this game and bringing great content and taking criticism constructively!

Random rant.. but just have major respect for everyone here, thanks for your work!
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BadStar

Hoping to win the prize..

Is the trick you mention to your whoops the entry? Has a incline to help enter better?
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Asdrael

June 15, 2016, 04:31:34 PM #11 Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 04:35:11 PM by Asdrael
Quote from: StoneRider on June 15, 2016, 02:05:34 PM
first of all i got to say that i take so much pleasure riding your sx track. i'm a true fan of supercross and this is so cool to have those two. i think you find the good setup for the whoops, triple kicker and common rythme jumps. But i that the reception of your triples have to be more high, as high as the kicker actually. i also think that your berms have to be higher too, and stiffer and i think they have to continue more on the track. you need to make them longer i don't know if you see what i mean... ^^ anyway, i ride with the 250rmz and i'm able to triple in easily but i just CAN'T triple the rest of the rythme. The second triple just don't jump for me. i tried many diffeent setup but... no way

Thanks for the feedback. I'm also having troubles with the RMZ, while I'm fine with the other bikes really. Regarding the triples, I'm going by DirtWurtx specifications - 6', 4.5', 3' with a 2:1 take off and 3:1 landing. So IRL, the landing is about 2 time smaller than the kicker, which is what there is in my tracks now (not counting Rd02 where I did a mistake in the heightmap and the landing is 2'). As for the berms, man, they are already higher, steeper and longer than what they have on the real tracks :p (this is to compensate the need to straighten the bike more, and controlling the throttle is more difficult in game as you can't "feel" it). I'll see what I can do next track.

Quote from: BadStarI can triple in and its so sweet, but I have to break and make the next double..no other option without major gamble on 250.
While I agree I can always do better on the faces / spacing and the physics can be improved, I can triple triple almost every lap on a 250F. I ave obviously a lot more laps in than you, but once you figure out how to keep your momentum in turns, you'll notice that the problem becomes overjumping and keeping the rythm more than making it. I have to absorb more some jumps now, and I'm trying to find the fastest compromise. Currently uploading a lap where I tried absorbing too much and ended up needing to (fail my) seat bounce to make it again for the second triple.

Quote from: BadStarIs the trick you mention to your whoops the entry? Has a incline to help enter better?
You'll figure it out if my video ever finishes uploading :p


Overall, the obstacles i'm making in SX are different from the ones we are used to in the MX tracks. They take a bit getting used to, don't charge in after 5 laps hoping to triple-triple, as I said, this track takes a long time to master. I'm not there yet and I probably have 100 laps in.
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Wedgewood

Great job.  It's a fun track without being too difficult.  It should make for some real close racing.  Thanks for the upload.

BadStar

Your right, more time on track a definite requirement. I did triple triple a couple times but was a gamble with all the air breaking and leaning forward to stick the landing..made it a serious gamble.. but again, more time on track needed.

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Asdrael

June 15, 2016, 05:49:57 PM #14 Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 05:54:40 PM by Asdrael
Here we go: a lap on a YZ250F trying to NOT overjump everything. I was focusing on jumping "just the right distance" for every jump. You can clearly hear that I'm not full throttle approaching the rythm and still making the triple in easily enough. The corner entry, whoops speed and overall line choice was the safe one. A few seconds can be gained there for a fast hot lap. I can also improve the way I avoid taking too much air - I was too close to casing a few times for my taste (letting off the gas versus reducing speed and bouncing it). It doesn't feel close in first person tho when playing.

WARNING: THE FIRST MINUTE VOLUME IS LOW. This is because I was using the side cams. Do NOT turn the volume up for this. It starts with the Arena view, then PoV, then the side buggy cams. You will enjoy me casing a bit the second triple of the first long rythm because I let off the speed too much coming in, tried and failed a seat bounce to compensate. Still made it :p

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_dQkorpoZg

(First time using recording for this, I had to install OBS and the settings are suboptimal obviously).

Edit: f*ck me, there is a small audio delay starting at 2min or so. Approx 0.5s delay. Sorry.

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