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So... Thoughts so far?

Started by Midbeck, September 30, 2014, 06:17:54 PM

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motox24

October 02, 2014, 03:01:35 AM #45 Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 03:04:16 AM by motox24
Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:58:56 AM
Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:51:14 AM
Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
Its pretty wonky right now.
Some times it feels nice and i can see potential.

But other times it feels too similair to GP bikes and thats not what we want more an MX game. The turning is very finnicky, worse than simulators, if you hit a slight change in track height you go down, wheel goes tiny bit to top of berm go down, go a normal slow speed fall down. Ive gotten a couple of full laps in with no crashes on the practice track.

Ummm....ya! It is wonky atm.

Yes, "finicky" is an issue. BUT.........I totally see the potential. THIS IS THE "NEXT-GEN" MX GAME! 

No doubt

I dont know about that. Its got a long way to come to even compete against mx sim. If someone can show me a full lap of them going around "Maryland" i would like to see that. But as of now it feels if the tracks were anything harder than the practice track racing wouldnt be possible.

Im more impressed with the graphics than anything at this point. I would also like a new third person camera as its a bit strange now, and the first person views are disorientating coming from sim.

i love the first person view (second one)! How do you not?

Anyway......third person.....who cares.

And more anyway.......ya it's gotta grow. There will be updates to improve things! But this is the "next-gen". No doubt.

Later I will upload (after trying to get my track done and uploaded) a clean lap of Maryland! Maybe you just suck!!!!!!

Oh i definitely suck, just like when sim came out. Took me a good few months to be able to do consecutive laps on a SX track in that game.
and i want to like the first person, that's all i use in sim.
There's just something about the feel of the game. It sort of reminds me of the arcade mode of mx sim.
but i havent stopped playing it since i bought it, and i almost got a full maryland lap except for the top section in the back.

zracer94

Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:58:56 AM
Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:51:14 AM
Quote from: geofanatec on October 02, 2014, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: motox24 on October 02, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
Its pretty wonky right now.
Some times it feels nice and i can see potential.

But other times it feels too similair to GP bikes and thats not what we want more an MX game. The turning is very finnicky, worse than simulators, if you hit a slight change in track height you go down, wheel goes tiny bit to top of berm go down, go a normal slow speed fall down. Ive gotten a couple of full laps in with no crashes on the practice track.

Ummm....ya! It is wonky atm.

Yes, "finicky" is an issue. BUT.........I totally see the potential. THIS IS THE "NEXT-GEN" MX GAME! 

No doubt

I dont know about that. Its got a long way to come to even compete against mx sim. If someone can show me a full lap of them going around "Maryland" i would like to see that. But as of now it feels if the tracks were anything harder than the practice track racing wouldnt be possible.

Im more impressed with the graphics than anything at this point. I would also like a new third person camera as its a bit strange now, and the first person views are disorientating coming from sim.

i love the first person view (second one)! How do you not?

Anyway......third person.....who cares.

And more anyway.......ya it's gotta grow. There will be updates to improve things! But this is the "next-gen". No doubt.

Later I will upload (after trying to get my track done and uploaded) a clean lap of Maryland! Maybe you just suck!!!!!!

Ya I care about 3rd person cause 1st makes me wanna puke. Thanks for not making it all about you.

moto28

Well im 24 hours in so i guess its time to express my thoughts :)

PROS
Absolutely love the game. Already my new favorite. Love the feel.
Love the graphics. Its a absolutely beautiful game.
I love getting to actually see a real pit-board not just a HUD
Love the realism. (Please keep it this way) :)

I could go on forever with pros. so ill cut it off here

CONS
Most frustrating thing i have yet to see is that the Pit board shows the lap time of 2 laps ago. i wish it would show the lap i just completed
Needs more low speed stability
Need to be able to steer more with the rear wheel.
More Mid air control.
Clutch needs to have higher Rpm's once released. Really bogs when starting off the clutch.
Re-spawning is a little buggy but not terribly. ( Bike Ghost rides and keeps you from spawning or someone will fall next to you and keep you from spawning. etc.)
Last but not least id like the lean feature to involve more of the full body not just really the shoulders up. Although i would just like shoulders to lean in some occasions so i understand it being a difficult concept

All in all this game is absolutely incredible to me and The developers are doing an amazing job. I understand its just beta but i wanted to share what could be done for improvements in the future.

Thank you Piboso and Snappe for the hard work

jbrandmx85

My thoughts so far are that the game lacks a ton of things and needs a ton of work. With it being the 1st beta though I feel like the game is going to be really good when things start to take more form. Honestly I have a ton of fun playing, and the graphics are just amazing. I cant wait to see beta2 now. Hopefully now that the game has been released piboso can get some good feedback and get things sorted out a little quicker. Even the game is lacking a lot in these early stages, I know the first full release is going to be amazing.

MXK_cdub85

The base of the sim is great, best starting point for an alpha release I've personally seen. Saying that, there are some very distinct issues keeping this from truly feeling like an Mx bike. In saying that, these critisicms are purely from a constructive viewpoint. I've put in several hours and messed around with every setting I can think of. I'm gathering my thoughts the best I can.

1. By far and away the biggest issue to me is the cameras on all of the 1st and 3rd person cams. There is this odd swivel effect that does not lend itself well to Mx, it seems like a transplant from GP Bikes. Not good. There shouldn't be such a harsh disconnect from the bike/front end while turning and leaning. In Mx there is a positive feel you must maintain with the front end or your gonna be slow or crash often. In GP Bikes these cameras work and make great sense for the sim. On a street bike the gyro of the bike is a huge factor and you are leaning into the turns and such. In Mx it's more of weighting the ouside peg, sitting up near the tank and flowing through corners. This should be adressed sooner than later in my opinion.

2. The automatic centering of the bike after making any turning movement on the joystick is completely unnecessary. In fact I may consider this to be the #1 issue, and may be why the cameras feel odd in the first place, but I digress. It feels as though you may have boosted the gyro effect or added some form of stabilizing effect which completely takes proper fine control away from the player.  (I'm guessing not, but something isn't right here). It makes turning feel delayed to your input and hard to correct and judge. The in air controls may be affected by this strange auto centering force as well. I know it's stupid to compare, but the way Mx simulator handles the bike leaning is the way to aim for. You should be the one to bring the bike back up for the most part, not the game.

3. Low speed stability needs a lot of thought. It's completly off the mark compared to what it should be and feels in real life. In real life it only takes a tiny bit of gas and momentum to get the bike to balance and stay upright on its own. As of now, it's like a fish out of water, just flipping and flopping all willy nilly. I'm sure it's much easier to gripe about this than to simulate this, but it needs some love.

4.i suppose this belongs with #3 but oh well. The way the physics handle hills and changes in terrain is extremely bizarre. It reacts nothing like it does in real life. Its entirely off putting when you fall on or before a hill and get stuck on it for 5 mins...not fun.

5. The traction on front and rear are hit and miss. At times it feels like your truly ripping in the soil. Other times, the front end washes out like it hit an oil patch out of nowhere. It's unlike Mx Simulators issue, which happens when you lean to far or hit uneven terrain wrong. It just happens randomly sometimes. There's no sense of feeling before losing grip completely and washing out.

There are other things in my mind, I may edit later. For now this is a good start. These are strictly constructive critisicms for piboso and team. I only wish to aid in improvement of this potentially amazing simulator you have created for all of us! I'm very thankful for the work you've put in and the constant contact and feedback from you. I hope to see this continue and that you stick with this and all of us to make this gem really shine. It close, but needs a few improvements to make this an unbelievable Mx simulation! Congrats on the release!

PDR

cdub hit the nail on the head, he described all of the main issues

motox24

Quote from: PDR on October 02, 2014, 06:51:37 AM
cdub hit the nail on the head, he described all of the main issues
Agreed.

HornetMaX

Quote from: MXK_cdub85 on October 02, 2014, 06:41:05 AM
2. The automatic centering of the bike after making any turning movement on the joystick is completely unnecessary. In fact I may consider this to be the #1 issue, and may be why the cameras feel odd in the first place, but I digress. It feels as though you may have boosted the gyro effect or added some form of stabilizing effect which completely takes proper fine control away from the player.  (I'm guessing not, but something isn't right here). It makes turning feel delayed to your input and hard to correct and judge. The in air controls may be affected by this strange auto centering force as well. I know it's stupid to compare, but the way Mx simulator handles the bike leaning is the way to aim for. You should be the one to bring the bike back up for the most part, not the game.
There's a "Direct lean" option in the input settings, this will avoid the "delay effect" and what you call the "self centering" (which is in fact not a self-centering, but just a slow response to your stick going back to middle).

The leaning will become much more twitchy (you may want to use smooth and play with linearity). After years and years of GPB, i still don't get how people can play without "direct lean" set to ON. Notice however that in GPB the vast majority of the players use Direct lean OFF (unchecked).

MaX.

bearded4glory

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 02, 2014, 08:56:18 AM
Quote from: MXK_cdub85 on October 02, 2014, 06:41:05 AM
2. The automatic centering of the bike after making any turning movement on the joystick is completely unnecessary. In fact I may consider this to be the #1 issue, and may be why the cameras feel odd in the first place, but I digress. It feels as though you may have boosted the gyro effect or added some form of stabilizing effect which completely takes proper fine control away from the player.  (I'm guessing not, but something isn't right here). It makes turning feel delayed to your input and hard to correct and judge. The in air controls may be affected by this strange auto centering force as well. I know it's stupid to compare, but the way Mx simulator handles the bike leaning is the way to aim for. You should be the one to bring the bike back up for the most part, not the game.
There's a "Direct lean" option in the input settings, this will avoid the "delay effect" and what you call the "self centering" (which is in fact not a self-centering, but just a slow response to your stick going back to middle).

The leaning will become much more twitchy (you may want to use smooth and play with linearity). After years and years of GPB, i still don't get how people can play without "direct lean" set to ON. Notice however that in GPB the vast majority of the players use Direct lean OFF (unchecked).

MaX.

IDK if you have played MX Simulator, seems like you have come from the GP bikes side.  In MXS if you want to turn right you move the stick to the right until you are leaned over enough then let it return to center.  Then it will stay like that until you move the stick left of center (the leveling amount does bring it up on its own but you virtually always have to correct it).  I feel like Direct Lean is dictating the bike lean angle with the stick vs. the fork angle that is a completely different thing.  I did try it and in some cases I liked it better and in some I thought it was horrible (mostly jumping).

The bike standing up just seems erratic to me and sometimes it works perfect and sometimes it over or under corrects and it takes too long to make the correction manually so I end up in the grass or one of the fences.  I think this feel works well in GP Bikes (I got that a while back and it is very good) it just doesn't feel right on a lighter bike at lower speeds.  In comparison a dirt bike should be much faster to change directions and more nimble.

HornetMaX

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:32:58 AM
IDK if you have played MX Simulator, seems like you have come from the GP bikes side.
Gave it a try (demo) a long ago. No thanks :) But I'm not that much into cross, to be honest. GPB is what I eat, drink and breathe.

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:32:58 AM
In MXS if you want to turn right you move the stick to the right until you are leaned over enough then let it return to center.  Then it will stay like that until you move the stick left of center (the leveling amount does bring it up on its own but you virtually always have to correct it).  I feel like Direct Lean is dictating the bike lean angle with the stick vs. the fork angle that is a completely different thing.  I did try it and in some cases I liked it better and in some I thought it was horrible (mostly jumping).

The bike standing up just seems erratic to me and sometimes it works perfect and sometimes it over or under corrects and it takes too long to make the correction manually so I end up in the grass or one of the fences.  I think this feel works well in GP Bikes (I got that a while back and it is very good) it just doesn't feel right on a lighter bike at lower speeds.  In comparison a dirt bike should be much faster to change directions and more nimble.
In GPB and MXB the stick associated to the "lean" input (bike lean, not rider lean) dictates the lean (doh !). So yes, it's not what MXS does.
With or without direct lean, if you don't want your bike to stand up, then leave the stick where it is, do not allow it to go back to middle.

The discussion is very interesting, you should create a separate topic.

MaX.

Fangel

October 02, 2014, 10:36:04 AM #55 Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 11:08:19 AM by Fangel
We shouldn't forget the MX Simulator dosen't have to be the standard. Personally, and this is my opinion only, MX Bikes feel better already than MX Simulator. In MXS you are able to drive in this angle \ for miles straight, if you just get the throttle right - I find that a bit weird as I would guess the more speed you get, the more the bike will try to stand upright like this |, that's why you can't turn your own handlebars when you're going high speeds. To counter that, you lean the bike, not turn the handlebars. I guess when you're in a turn, to center the bike back after a turn, you would counter-lean.

Just my humble opinion.

EDIT: I changed my FOV to 110 as I saw somewhere on the forums, and that has made me able to do several laps without crashing. The first person camera is a lot more precise like that in my opinion!

Midbeck

October 02, 2014, 10:46:50 AM #56 Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 10:48:30 AM by Midbeck
After playing this game now for a lot of hours I really feel like this is GPbikes but on dirt. The bike feels way to connected to the ground and if the back end steps out just a bit you go down. I re watched some of the old pre alpha footage and I just wonder what happened to those physics? Because in my honest opinion those looks more realistic.

I'm excited about the game and I really believe that it has a bright future, but to be honest I feel like updates need to happen pretty quick otherwise people will lose interest in the game.

Oh one more thing, I personally love the slower pace in this game compared to MXS, but I also feel like i have to go that slow because the bike is way to unpredictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjfO5GCvwJo @ 1:58 That is probably one of the few things I miss from mxs. The fact that you have almost full control in the corner.


Sorry for the rant.
#DirtyEuro

Ruubs

Lets all just play MXB for some months and then compare MXB and MXS, and ask for quick updates.
I get that there are a couple of things different than MXS, and maybe not as realistic, but TBH the game feels a LOT more realistic than any other MX game I played.

I'm sure 99% of the guys who play MXS now never thought it'd be this fun, the first week they played it. So just play MXB for some more months and after that we can compare it to real life, or to other games.

And yes, there obviously are weird things in MXB, but we got a LOT in MXS too.

Midbeck

Quote from: Sandbiter on October 02, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
Lets all just play MXB for some months and then compare MXB and MXS, and ask for quick updates.
I get that there are a couple of things different than MXS, and maybe not as realistic, but TBH the game feels a LOT more realistic than any other MX game I played.

I'm sure 99% of the guys who play MXS now never thought it'd be this fun, the first week they played it. So just play MXB for some more months and after that we can compare it to real life, or to other games.

And yes, there obviously are weird things in MXB, but we got a LOT in MXS too.

Well tbh the problems i've pointed out isnt a matter of putting in hours. I really do believe that it's crucial for piboso and snappe to focus on the problems that have been pointed out as quick as possible.

And it's natural to compare it to MXS because that's the ONLY game to compare it to.
#DirtyEuro

Ruubs

Quote from: Midbeck on October 02, 2014, 11:15:23 AM
Quote from: Sandbiter on October 02, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
Lets all just play MXB for some months and then compare MXB and MXS, and ask for quick updates.
I get that there are a couple of things different than MXS, and maybe not as realistic, but TBH the game feels a LOT more realistic than any other MX game I played.

I'm sure 99% of the guys who play MXS now never thought it'd be this fun, the first week they played it. So just play MXB for some more months and after that we can compare it to real life, or to other games.

And yes, there obviously are weird things in MXB, but we got a LOT in MXS too.

Well tbh the problems i've pointed out isnt a matter of putting in hours. I really do believe that it's crucial for piboso and snappe to focus on the problems that have been pointed out as quick as possible.

And it's natural to compare it to MXS because that's the ONLY game to compare it to.
But you've had MXS for a lot of years already, MXB isn't even out for a week yet.