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News:

MX Bikes beta18j available! :)


So... Thoughts so far?

Started by Midbeck, September 30, 2014, 06:17:54 PM

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MXK_cdub85

October 02, 2014, 12:00:28 PM #60 Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 01:19:11 PM by MXK_cdub85
QuoteThere's a "Direct lean" option in the input settings
MaX.

Like I previously, stated I have tried all of the different settings I could think of, including direct lean on and off. While it's much better with direct lean 'off', the same issue is still present. It's a rather odd choice of implementing control tbh. I want to be clear that I am in no way bashing on this sim. I've been following it for a year or so anxious as hell to get my hands on it. It's healthy to give feedback in a constructive manner. There's very clearly a lot of work physics wise before this has bike physics close to Mx Sim, let alone a real dirtbike. I just don't see you having the fine control over the bike that Mx Sim provides with the current build. I am only comparing the two as that's all there is to go off of. I don't want this to be an enhanced Mx Simulator,  as it 's not even  technically a "real" sim. Just trying to point out and discuss these things with fellow players and the developers. No harm done.

P.S. I am enjoying it regardless of the issues at hand. It's so close, just no cigar yet  ;)

al167

amazing first beta!!!! congrats to the Dev team!!  I did five laps then went straight back here and purchased it!!!

pros-
visuals are just top notch! I maxed everything and it ran smooth as silk! (gtx570, intel i5 2500 3.3 ghz)
absolutely beautiful! love the shadows and on object/rider shadows different weather ect is fantastic!
clutch is nice, braking is fine too, I actually like the sounds too!!
track textures, 3d grass are great and trackside animations like the flaggers is sweet!!!
user interface is nice and clean too!
I can see huge potential for this!!!

cons-
I agree with mostly what cdub said.
but with the steering id like to change the "leaning" to steering. I want full control of that steering!!
direct steering the bars instead of "leaning"  is where I think it needs to be. in gp bikes leaning works great because you only need to steer slightly. but on a dirtbike you are doing such tight turns and using the steering in the air to control the bike. even when on "direct" steering the steering is over ridden by something and feels unnatural. having full control I believe will fix most steering problems including control in air!
also there's something not right about the traction. even in the rain the bikes rear doesn't want to slide or even wheel spin?

in the UI just some more general help text would be much appreciated! a help bubble for each parameter in UI and bike settings would be nice for us beginner's. half the questions here would be solved with this.
better controller calibration setup info (just some text explaining what to do and/or a default xbox 360 and ps3 setup) more info for each advanced function here too.
we are all flying blind.
also for tyres are they for soft dirt or are they soft compound? eg an mx soft tyre is for mud/sand and has larger nobs further spaced. a hard has closer nobs and softer compound. in general just some more info is wanted otherwise you will see the same questions appear over and over on these forums!

all in all great effort for a first beta! and just like CDub said please use this as feedback rather than negativity.









HornetMaX

Quote from: al167 on October 02, 2014, 02:34:25 PM
but with the steering id like to change the "leaning" to steering. I want full control of that steering!!
direct steering the bars instead of "leaning"  is where I think it needs to be. in gp bikes leaning works great because you only need to steer slightly. but on a dirtbike you are doing such tight turns and using the steering in the air to control the bike. even when on "direct" steering the steering is over ridden by something and feels unnatural. having full control I believe will fix most steering problems including control in air!
That's very very unlikely.

In GPB it is possible to have direct steering (there are even two different flavors of it), it's a option buried in a .ini file (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0).
But it's extremely hard to use. For start, you should have a force feedback device (like a g27 wheel), otherwise it makes little sense (at least in one of the two variants).
Then, at low speed it's a nightmare,as the bike is very unstable and sensitive to what you do with the handlebars.

MaX.

m121c

From what I can see MxB needs to be it's own game and separate itself from GP bikes. This is a dirt bike not a street bike, they are opposite sides of the spectrum. Even though MXS is the only game to compare this to, you have to remember it's been out for 6 years and MxB just came out also.

I would say this was a pretty successful first beta and I'm sure Piboso and Snappe got a nice little pay day these last few days for a little motivation. Obviously they stated the physics were rough and needed a lot of work, I'm excited to see where this game will be in a few months or even a year. I see lots of potential here.

shanebell618

I also have issues standing the bike back up after corner. I want the bike to stay where I put it, until I move the stick back the other way.  :-\

MotoRogers499

October 02, 2014, 07:39:52 PM #65 Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 10:53:21 PM by MotoRogers499
Honestly, in MXS i play with my leveling around 30-40 depending on if im riding supercross or motocross, so coming to MXB it doesnt feel a hell of a lot different with how the bike wants to return upright. Im fine with it. Playing with direct lean on feels over exaggerated, but with it off the bike naturally returns upright by itself realistically.

lebclem

Quote from: shanebell618 on October 02, 2014, 06:44:37 PM
I also have issues standing the bike back up after corner. I want the bike to stay where I put it, until I move the stick back the other way.  :-\
disable "direct lean" in the settings ;)

bearded4glory

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 02, 2014, 03:25:32 PM
Quote from: al167 on October 02, 2014, 02:34:25 PM
but with the steering id like to change the "leaning" to steering. I want full control of that steering!!
direct steering the bars instead of "leaning"  is where I think it needs to be. in gp bikes leaning works great because you only need to steer slightly. but on a dirtbike you are doing such tight turns and using the steering in the air to control the bike. even when on "direct" steering the steering is over ridden by something and feels unnatural. having full control I believe will fix most steering problems including control in air!
That's very very unlikely.

In GPB it is possible to have direct steering (there are even two different flavors of it), it's a option buried in a .ini file (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0).
But it's extremely hard to use. For start, you should have a force feedback device (like a g27 wheel), otherwise it makes little sense (at least in one of the two variants).
Then, at low speed it's a nightmare,as the bike is very unstable and sensitive to what you do with the handlebars.

MaX.

Does this work in MXB?  I may have to try it.

I sort of saw this coming, since there are 2 groups of people coming from different games/sims and converging on this one there are going to be fundamental disagreements on what people prefer in how the game feels.  IMO the way MX Bikes is now is more similar to how MX Sim is with arcade mode enabled.  As it sits the bike is doing too much steering without my input.  When I notice that I am drifting left I steer right but it is doing its own thing and messes up what I have already done.  To be a Sim IMO it needs to rely more on user input and less on targeting a lean angle.  I don't really care how that happens I just need to take back more of the control from the computer.  I don't think end user control should be sacrificed in the name of making a sim easier, MXS has proven that people are willing to take the time to learn how to play a game even if it takes months to make a single clean lap.  Do I think it needs to be that extreme?  No I don't.  But I think there is somewhere in the middle that is optimal.

Obviously it is a few days after Beta 1 release and this is not a final build so I don't want to be harsh.  I think that the graphics are really great and I want to make some really cool tracks (this is why I am so worried about it).  That said, the direction that the dev team goes with this issue will make or break the game for a lot of people.  Personally if it is a refined version of this then it is not something that I would be willing to invest time into content creation because I won't enjoy the end product of my work.

I know each dev has a direction they want to travel and often times it is hard to get them to investigate alternatives.  We have seen it countless times in MXS and I would just urge Piboso and Snappe to really read everyones feedback and take it into consideration.  Play around with the physics and don't limit yourself to one way of thinking.  If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

BOBR6 84

Yesterday I struggled with MXB, thought it was good but struggled with jumps, turns and couldnt find any flow..
Today I found it awesome! Instead of going around at snail pace I just went for it! Turns out its much easier the faster you go lol

Has to be onboard view to really understand whats going on in corners etc imo.
Seems you can be aggressive and attack the track which didnt seem possible for me yesterday!

So all in all im enjoying it. Should be a great sim!  ;)

HornetMaX

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
Does this work in MXB?  I may have to try it.
I haven't seen it mentioned in the doc, so either it doesn't work either it has been kept hidden (likely for a good reason).

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
I sort of saw this coming, since there are 2 groups of people coming from different games/sims and converging on this one there are going to be fundamental disagreements on what people prefer in how the game feels.
In such cases, the golden rule has always been one (for GPB at least): trust Piboso's team :)

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
IMO the way MX Bikes is now is more similar to how MX Sim is with arcade mode enabled.  As it sits the bike is doing too much steering without my input.  When I notice that I am drifting left I steer right but it is doing its own thing and messes up what I have already done.  To be a Sim IMO it needs to rely more on user input and less on targeting a lean angle.  I don't really care how that happens I just need to take back more of the control from the computer. 
That's all good, until you try direct steer in GPB (track bikes on very flat surfaces) and realize that with no feedback it's just pure masochism (in GPB there's one single player that uses direct steer and by his own admission he does it for the sake of the challenge. After months and months, he still struggle to put a few laps together and his laptimes are like the ones of a 125cc vs a motogp at monza). In MXB, with a very uneven surface and much lower speed, it would be just impossible.

But if Piboso will provide the option in MXB (direct steer), you'll be able to see by yourself :)

MaX.

PiBoSo

Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.

Midbeck

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 02, 2014, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.

I agree, If piboso and Snappe are confident that they can make it work without non realistic forces they should stick to their plan.
#DirtyEuro

HornetMaX

Quote from: PiBoSo on October 02, 2014, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.
Hehe ... these MX guys are not yet familiar with the Piboso attitude toward simulation :)

Get used to it guys, it's not gonna change. And that's a good thing.

MaX.

thisisdef

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 02, 2014, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: PiBoSo on October 02, 2014, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: bearded4glory on October 02, 2014, 09:43:06 PM
If non realistic outside forces make the game feel more realistic then it would be silly not to use them.

No way.
Hehe ... these MX guys are not yet familiar with the Piboso attitude toward simulation :)

Get used to it guys, it's not gonna change. And that's a good thing.

MaX.

I love PiBoSo's attitude =D
Quote from: PiBoSoIt's actually an ambitious project, and at some point, hopefully sooner than later, it will show its full potential.

MXK_cdub85

Same here! I only offer my feedback so that the simulation may improve in some way. It's essential to stay full on sim. This is the one that has the potential to change mx games/sims forever! Keep it up!