New suspension geometries

[PiBoSo]

http://www.youtube.com/v/lof98NbSm1c

Despite the title, not really an attempt at a speedway bike.
It's the 450xf with the rear wheel linked directly to the chassis ( hardtail ) and the forks replaced with a push arm.
Hopefully modders will use the new suspensions to create the real deal.


Edit:
The title has been changed. Maybe it could mislead to the conclusion that "official" non-motocross bikes are in progress.
The plan is only to allow new suspension geometries for modders.
At the front:
- push arm, trail arm and rigid
At the rear:
- hardtail

[GDUBMX]

Piboso I admire your ambition mate.. But here comes the flame.
This is my opinion only and I respect what you do but.. Surely as "mx bikes"  we should focus on motocross? Enduro,  sure.  Fmx,  ok yeah, supermoto, barely but OK.  Speedway, no.  There is zero in common with motocross.  You race on shale,  you only turn left, you do not jump, you have no brakes etc.

A mod is cool,  as it can help with slide control.  All Im saying is please don't get wrapped up in this stuff so much that you neglect the core element of mx here mate.  We want to our Vegas supercross and new  style rider model, animations,  stats etc. I know this will be great for rc and his mtb mod and thata cool and I know I'm a prick for saying it but it has to be said and that's how I feel about it. Sorry

[Asdrael]

Hey, why not. I like the new geometry option as it gives a lot of room for modders, even for pure MX stuff. 70's replica series anyone? I also suppose it'll be (even more) useful in GP Bikes.

And GDub, I can understand your position but given the major advances in stability and physics and beta 5 and the current "working on netcode" spam in the daily dev thread, I'm personally not worried. Just impatient :p

[PiBoSo]

Piboso I admire your ambition mate.. But here comes the flame.
This is my opinion only and I respect what you do but.. Surely as "mx bikes"  we should focus on motocross? Enduro,  sure.  Fmx,  ok yeah, supermoto, barely but OK.  Speedway, no.  There is zero in common with motocross.  You race on shale,  you only turn left, you do not jump, you have no brakes etc.

A mod is cool,  as it can help with slide control.  All Im saying is please don't get wrapped up in this stuff so much that you neglect the core element of mx here mate.  We want to our Vegas supercross and new  style rider model, animations,  stats etc. I know this will be great for rc and his mtb mod and thata cool and I know I'm a prick for saying it but it has to be said and that's how I feel about it. Sorry

Your concerns are valid.
However, please note that work has only been done to support new suspension geometries.
At the front:
- push arm, trail arm and rigid
At the rear:
- hardtail
There are no plans to create "official" bikes using them, but only to give more "tools" to modders.

[Maatth4]

It's nice to know you're working on the game.
But that does not go in the right direction.

I think it will first focus on ONLY the motocross!
Especially on the physics of the game.

There was a good evolution at BETA 4.
We must continue in this direction.

Please! Continue with the MOTOCROSS and the MOTOCROSS.

[Maatth4]

Piboso I admire your ambition mate.. But here comes the flame.
This is my opinion only and I respect what you do but.. Surely as "mx bikes"  we should focus on motocross? Enduro,  sure.  Fmx,  ok yeah, supermoto, barely but OK.  Speedway, no.  There is zero in common with motocross.  You race on shale,  you only turn left, you do not jump, you have no brakes etc.

A mod is cool,  as it can help with slide control.  All Im saying is please don't get wrapped up in this stuff so much that you neglect the core element of mx here mate.  We want to our Vegas supercross and new  style rider model, animations,  stats etc. I know this will be great for rc and his mtb mod and thata cool and I know I'm a prick for saying it but it has to be said and that's how I feel about it. Sorry

Your concerns are valid.
However, please note that work has only been done to support new suspension geometries.
At the front:
- push arm, trail arm and rigid
At the rear:
- hardtail
There are no plans to create "official" bikes using them, but only to give more "tools" to modders.

Your answer reassures me! If this can help improve the suspensions then I withdraw my message.

Continue like that! I admire your work !!
The game is promising!

[BadStar]

There are no plans to create "official" bikes using them, but only to give more "tools" to modders.

I fully support anything you create to help mods..as we all know sometimes mods turn out to make some games super successful and that's what I want to see for MXB(success).

Also, greatly appreciate the turn adjustments in direction when you where working on beta 5 to improve netcode and still continues! Not only did you make great improvements on netcode but the entire game. Great job!

[grimm]

You dudes worried about progress do realize that the only reason MX Bikes even exists is due to the fact Piboso started from scratch with GP Bikes and built upon it with new suspension and chassis physics VIA experimenting. If it was just "focus on MX first" you would have the longest development process known to man, and a game (not a sim at that point really as without testing everything possible to know MX is spot on for the discipline that it is) that only reflects one single thing instead of encompassing being a motorcycle simulator first and foremost, seemingly what the code was written for to begin with, any variance to it is expanding on the original platform and honestly not a bad thing if you want the best MX sim possible.

I gotta disagree on SM being so far removed from MX that it's not useful to include. Funny that the people that have such a hard on for MX are the ones that were regulars at MX Simulator forum (alot of names I recognize from there as I was a lurker for years and years). Only reason I got into MX Sim was for, none other than, the Supermoto mods, and the dislike over there for it is beginning to be reflected here. Some of us are not physically capable of launching 60 foot triples in real life (too old and beat up to risk a fall like that anymore) and have no desire to do it on a game either, but, there is those of us that LOVE supermoto and would have zero interest in MX Bikes without it. The 450SM is the entire reason I bought a copy of MX Bikes to begin with.

Last night I was playing with the 450SM at knoxville (WRS track) and found that cooking off the center of the rear tire causes it to be really controllable in a full corner slide, my first good lap sideways resulted in a beautiful, absolutely perfect rear tire wall tap that I saved the replay of. For the simple sake of it, I'll mod a bike to do speedway duty if nobody else will. I come from the land of the ice and snow, so ice speedway racing is in my blood, and I'm American and there isn't much that is more American than apple pie and flat track racing. Just like MX Bikes having supermoto, if it had oval racing too, I will happily be one of the 1% that actually cares, even if I am that sliver of the population that craves this sort of thing and wants to see it happen.


Thanks you for all your hard work Piboso (team?). I for one am excited to see the possibilities grow as MX Bikes and GP Bikes evolve. 

[BadStar]

I gotta disagree on SM being so far removed from MX that it's not useful to include. Funny that the people that have such a hard on for MX are the ones that were regulars at MX Simulator forum (alot of names I recognize from there as I was a lurker for years and years). Only reason I got into MX Sim was for, none other than, the Supermoto mods, and the dislike over there for it is beginning to be reflected here. Some of us are not physically capable of launching 60 foot triples in real life (too old and beat up to risk a fall like that anymore) and have no desire to do it on a game either, but, there is those of us that LOVE supermoto and would have zero interest in MX Bikes without it. The 450SM is the entire reason I bought a copy of MX Bikes to begin with.

Although I am a MX guy from the heart, I fully am with you on the SuperMoto thing.. a true SM track is 50/50 MX dirt/jumps and Pavement, so I don't see how SM doesn't go hand in hand with MX. Btw, SuperMoto was designed so the best dirt riders and best street riders could face-off and I think it had to be lumped into either MXB or GPB..I would go with MXB as a dev also bc the entire bike besides the wheels is straight up MX

[grimm]

I'm old enough to remember the "Superbikers" series. Even built a XR500 of my own into one just to relive the glorious days when a road racer and a MX rider could go head to head. A good friend is a MX guy and I'm a road guy, so when we both got a pair of bikes that became pretty decent representations of that old ABC series I watched as a young man, we really had it out dicing through the dirt and the street together. I'm not afraid of riding a bit of motocross, but modern bikes and technology made it really easy to go too big and too fast if you have no idea what you are doing, so the MX part of MX Bikes is a bit lost on my talent set and results in me not enjoying it as much as the supermoto as I've had a few, and tend to really get along with deep lean angle and the capability to land a little air without issue.

[GDUBMX]

Piboso I admire your ambition mate.. But here comes the flame.
This is my opinion only and I respect what you do but.. Surely as "mx bikes"  we should focus on motocross? Enduro,  sure.  Fmx,  ok yeah, supermoto, barely but OK.  Speedway, no.  There is zero in common with motocross.  You race on shale,  you only turn left, you do not jump, you have no brakes etc.

A mod is cool,  as it can help with slide control.  All Im saying is please don't get wrapped up in this stuff so much that you neglect the core element of mx here mate.  We want to our Vegas supercross and new  style rider model, animations,  stats etc. I know this will be great for rc and his mtb mod and thata cool and I know I'm a prick for saying it but it has to be said and that's how I feel about it. Sorry

Your concerns are valid.
However, please note that work has only been done to support new suspension geometries.
At the front:
- push arm, trail arm and rigid
At the rear:
- hardtail
There are no plans to create "official" bikes using them, but only to give more "tools" to modders.

Thats absolutely fine Piboso and I truly respect for jumping in when you did and correcting this thread.

Great news mate,  I'm so happy with beta 5 I was thrilled to see the advances made, just didn't want a side project that took over is all.  Thanks again

[BadStar]

I'm old enough to remember the "Superbikers" series. Even built a XR500 of my own into one just to relive the glorious days when a road racer and a MX rider could go head to head. A good friend is a MX guy and I'm a road guy, so when we both got a pair of bikes that became pretty decent representations of that old ABC series I watched as a young man, we really had it out dicing through the dirt and the street together. I'm not afraid of riding a bit of motocross, but modern bikes and technology made it really easy to go too big and too fast if you have no idea what you are doing, so the MX part of MX Bikes is a bit lost on my talent set and results in me not enjoying it as much as the supermoto as I've had a few, and tend to really get along with deep lean angle and the capability to land a little air without issue.

That's funny, similar here. Friend and I ride SM's together.. he is all street, I am more dirt and we battle it out.  Sadly for him he has no dirt time, so no battle there.  He is knee down and I am foot out on street..fun stuff!

[2tfanatic]

I think we shouldn't be telling Piboso what to do because he knows what he's doing, he's working on things that need to be worked on and it's pretty important for the future of MX Bikes.

[grimm]

Apologies for derailing the thread with personal opinion. Much respect to you gdubmx, you're the salt of the community here and my long winded reply was just personal opinion on Piboso expanding on the great platform that is MX Bikes, wasn't really focused at you at all. After thinking about it for a bit it seemed fair to point this out rather than coming off as argumentative.


Badstar, I started out with a '72 DT250 Enduro on tires from, probably '72, somewhere in the muddy flannel soaked waters of the mid 90's riding chassis deep through sand trails in central Wisconsin so my street skills came directly from riding one of the most difficult surfaces on outdated junk equipment there was to offer. When I got on the street dragging peg, knee, anything that would get down, all I could think riding those lumbering pigs they call street bikes, "This is all there is? This is it?", then I slapped some 17's and USD's off a GasGas FSE400SM onto a DRZ400S, hogged out the airbox, combined 3 jet kits for all the parts that worked, and did my own exhaust (been at that for years) to create a truly unruly DRZ Supermoto, a few ounces off the flywheel and the carb work resulted in one incredible experience. Still one of the only guys around that runs actual slicks through the year (take offs will last about a week or so before they are so heat checked they are slippery constantly even after warm up) on the street until it gets cold. But as most know, if you ain't slidin' you ain't ridin'.



I'm really still looking forward to the great things that can come from how expansive and well put together MX Bikes is. There isn't a ton left on the list to really get right for the connected to the surface behavior of the bike, and the better airtime gets, I'm sure the better the ground control will become.

[PiBoSo]

I think we shouldn't be telling Piboso what to do because he knows what he's doing, he's working on things that need to be worked on and it's pretty important for the future of MX Bikes.

Not really, but thank you for the support