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Rider movement

Started by Jose Reina, February 28, 2017, 12:26:21 AM

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Asdrael

February 28, 2017, 04:23:28 PM #15 Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 04:26:47 PM by Asdrael
As far as I know and his documentation shows, MaxHUD displays the lean angle of the bike.

As far as I could see in game, changing rider position doesn't change (-+.1°) the lean angle displays. But it does change how big of a turn you make. Which makes my initial post valid.

And it should be have like that - it does IRL. Same bike inclination, your body to the Inside - you'll make a sharper turn. Actually, try it on any bike: you can go straight by having your body lean on one side and your bike on the other.

The problem is that you'll barely ever do it in MX because you need to handle the roughness and rear wheel drifting in wide angles, which is much easier to do with your body leaning outside. They do it in SM not because of roughness but because they use MX bikes with a high CoG and monster suspension + front end geometry making leaning to the inside to prone to handlebar shaking and swaping out. In road bikes you lean inside because you need the extra tyre width + your rake angle and trail allow for it. You'll get maximum lean of bike + rider CoG this way and have the stability to handle it.

Edit: well shit, Teeds posted the same thing as me at the same from another perspective haha. Hoh and even if 250f are relatively mellow and allow for inside leaning here, as soon as the terrain gets rough or you step on a 450f, forget it. You'll be glad to lean outside to handle the rear shake.

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Jose Reina

February 28, 2017, 04:35:09 PM #16 Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 04:36:58 PM by Jose Reina
I think we're getting a bit off topic ...
And my English is too bad, it's a pity that I can not understand you well and can not explain myself well ...

But it is obvious, as in the pictures I have put, and the body sitting on the opposite side of the curve rider, the bike should be more stable and more spin.

At least in MX and SM, we do not talk about motogp and curves at 200km / h, that's quite another thing;)

𝖙𝖋𝖈

What confused me is when you say spin, you actually mean 'turn'. Spin suggests a crash or slide ;)

Jose Reina

Already ... sorry ... sometimes when I write turn on google, it makes me spin hahahaha Sorry hahahaha

Ruubs

I don't know anything about the physics and traction etc around this all, but I've always felt like the first person cam which is attached to the rider lean looks very very GP bike ish while turning. It looks like the rider really leans like in GP bikes drags his knee over the dirt.

Even if Jose is wrong and this won't get fixed, will at least the first person camera get fixed? I totally understand why people are saying this game feels like GP bikes if they're riding in first person.

Snappe

Quote from: Jose Reina on February 28, 2017, 04:35:09 PM
But it is obvious, as in the pictures I have put, and the body sitting on the opposite side of the curve rider, the bike should be more stable and more turn.

Quote from: Asdrael on February 28, 2017, 04:23:28 PM
And it should be have like that - it does IRL. Same bike inclination, your body to the Inside - you'll make a sharper turn.

Who's right then? I am pretty sure Asdrael is correct. At least this is how it is on road bikes.

Jose Reina

I play in the third person, sometimes I use the first person view, but usually in the third person, and since I have the game, I always knew that that happened, the bike turned more like I say.

EdouardB

Teeds has said pretty much everything about the subject and I just want to say that very good (and smart) riders will occasionaly lean towards the inside of the turn when it's doable and necessary.

Ryan Villopoto is a great example of that (especially on fast flat corner exits like the first pic) and I think it's very much one of the reasons of his success and great corner speed.

In real life as a spectator, I've also seen Chad Reed do that in supercross back in 2004. Pretty much the only rider of the field to do it, he crushed it and won all the races of the night.







Jose Reina

Quote from: Snappe on February 28, 2017, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: Jose Reina on February 28, 2017, 04:35:09 PM
But it is obvious, as in the pictures I have put, and the body sitting on the opposite side of the curve rider, the bike should be more stable and more turn.

Quote from: Asdrael on February 28, 2017, 04:23:28 PM
And it should be have like that - it does IRL. Same bike inclination, your body to the Inside - you'll make a sharper turn.

Who's right then? I am pretty sure Asdrael is correct. At least this is how it is on road bikes.

Ohhh yeah, of course! But you forget to say ... in a curve at 200km / h ... that's very very important to say;)

Try to make a curve at 40km / h with any bike, any ... with motogp style, or with MX or SM style ... to be with which the bike turns more ...

Asdrael

February 28, 2017, 05:48:39 PM #24 Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:50:53 PM by Asdrael
Quote from: Snappe on February 28, 2017, 05:40:57 PMWho's right then? I am pretty sure Asdrael is correct. At least this is how it is on road bikes.

I am. Physics don't change between bike types regardless of the speed. Constraints due to external factors do (namely unpredictability of the terrain and bike geometry constraints - including influence on rider body positioning and movement). Which is why different riding styles emerged to further differentiate road and dirt bikes.

Another parameter we didn't discuss much is tyre / soil contact and grip... road bikes have a (mostly) homogeneous surface (don't tase me bro I know about material changes for sides and tyre deformation influencing grip surface) whereas dirt bikes and SM bikes have a quite clear difference between tyre top and sides. I shoul take pics of my rear sand tyre for lulz.

Edouard - you lean inside in that situation mostly because you want the top of the tyre to have contact in those smooth exits in MX, which is more of a " forward traction" part. You'd knew that if you didn't get arm pump after 1 lap, noob ;)
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