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beta6 bug list

Started by Asdrael, March 17, 2017, 11:38:17 AM

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Bj Slice

in real life, in mid air, you can't lean forward without pulling the handlebars back. If you are on the ground or shall we say stand still, then you can lean forward or back without pulling or pushing the fron end. This is not a bug. This not a mistake either. This just how it would have to. The rear brake tap however could use a little bit more effect when looping out and of course the auto clutch is horible. When you use your rear brake, whether mid air or on the ground, automatic the clutch is held until you hit the throttle again coz your bike will continue to run freewheel. Looping out could be compensated by tapping the rear brake (of course everyone knows) but the bike always goes clutch-engage and lose engine braking.
"Practice not until you get it right. But practice until you can never get it wrong, and make it a routine"


Bj Slice

It is called anticipation when jumping. You know the bike's attitude even before you take off and once mid air, you already had made corrections whether it is the brake tap or the panic rev together with your body's position with regards to your CG. It all happens in one motion. Not while in mid air that you can always make corrections. Just my two cents thanks.
"Practice not until you get it right. But practice until you can never get it wrong, and make it a routine"


Bj Slice

What went wrong? Was my landing so bad?

check this video out. thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVzRBjinZzE&feature=youtu.be
"Practice not until you get it right. But practice until you can never get it wrong, and make it a routine"


CSchmied986

Quote from: Bj Slice on April 01, 2017, 04:12:00 AM
It is called anticipation when jumping. You know the bike's attitude even before you take off and once mid air, you already had made corrections whether it is the brake tap or the panic rev together with your body's position with regards to your CG. It all happens in one motion. Not while in mid air that you can always make corrections. Just my two cents thanks.

Guessing not many people on this forum are actual motocross racers?? ??? When I 'seat bounce' a jump IRL, I leave the takeoff full throttle, throw my weight as far back as possible, then AFTER leaving the jump, I throw my weight forward and hit the rear break (IN MID AIR) to make the appropriate corrections needed.  But here are some easy visual examples.

This guy is NOT trying to push the front down, and the bike ATTITUDE is changing as he leaves the jump.


THIS is correcting IN MID AIR for a high front end. (He's forcing the front down, not up)

Bj Slice

April 01, 2017, 09:01:58 AM #34 Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 09:28:57 AM by Bj Slice
Seatbounce is a different story. Because you are changing your CG on the ground. And of course you want to have as much grip on your rear as possible and as much rebound as possible so you as a rider can have a little throw from the bike so you can clip the bike with you and gain some more distance. The issue was when you loop out and you wanna correct it and someone said the behaviour is reverse when it wasn't. Try to be mid air and there change your center of gravity if you can without trying to pull or push the bar. The picture  will hardly explain it because it does not have momentum.  As I said, it all in one motion from the face, to the lip, to take off and in mid air all in one motion with anticipation of what's going to happen next.Anyway, For now, I am enjoying the game that it has so much differences from mx simulator (which I like) and not trying to make an arguement Thanks!
"Practice not until you get it right. But practice until you can never get it wrong, and make it a routine"


Bj Slice

April 01, 2017, 09:07:14 AM #35 Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 09:39:01 AM by Bj Slice
here is a seatbounce taught by Ryan Hughes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9wcoubWl7o
"Practice not until you get it right. But practice until you can never get it wrong, and make it a routine"


𝖙𝖋𝖈

April 01, 2017, 09:28:36 AM #36 Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 09:30:45 AM by TFC
I posted about this recently replying to Rutjes. I can only relate to dirt jumping bmx and mtb for a good 10 years of my life, but the principals are the same when it comes to body position (you have to exclude the gyros from that comparison though). It really is all about how you leave a jump, in real life, in bmx, in mx, in mxb..

In real life, how many people do you see start leaning forward or backward half way through their air time? Only the ones who are trying to save a jump gone wrong.. Maybe the odd rear wheel dip down while leaning forward for a bit of style here and there..

In mxb it also depends on the bike angle, for example if you're already nosediving, leaning back helps. If you're not nosediving and the bike is already following a good trajectory and let's say it's level, the bike will take the forces from putting weight over the back end and pushing down on the bars to physically move yourself back and for the most part stay level.

Leaning forward is the same. If your nose high and you lean forward and brake it helps. I guess this is because to lean forward you're pushing down on the pegs but as the bike is nose high this is towards the back of the bike rather than the floor as if the bike was level, but if you lean forward on a level and correct trajectory it dips the back slightly as you're pushing with your feet to get there, you're forces are now down towards the rear swingarm.

If you hold this lean, things then start to change more as you'd expect, but in real life how many people do you see drasticly start leaning back or forward at the peak of a perfect jump.

This makes total sense to me, in my experience dirt jumping the only time I ever leant forward was just after a takeoff, and the only time I ever leant back was before I was about to nosedive into a landing (not crash, just steep landings in dirt jumping sometimes).

Bj Slice

In mx simulator yes you can move forward and back like crazy and they call it the best mx sim ever. I played that game for a while but I just don't feel the realism. In mxs you can always correct your bike mid air by just rocking the stick back or forward and the rider will just slide back and fort on the bike's seat very quickly. Thank goodness mxb is here. By the way I am not a mx or sx rider but I did ride enduros back in the day. So I guess I have my fair share of seat time with a real bike.
"Practice not until you get it right. But practice until you can never get it wrong, and make it a routine"


Ruubs

Quote from: Bj Slice on April 01, 2017, 08:41:55 AM
What went wrong? Was my landing so bad?

check this video out. thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVzRBjinZzE&feature=youtu.be
That's the landing on back wheel bug I talked about earlier. Annoying, isn't it? :-\

HornetMaX

Quote from: Bj Slice on April 01, 2017, 03:47:16 AM
in real life, in mid air, you can't lean forward without pulling the handlebars back. If you are on the ground or shall we say stand still, then you can lean forward or back without pulling or pushing the fron end. This is not a bug. This not a mistake either. This just how it would have to.
+1 for the above.

Quote from: Bj Slice on April 01, 2017, 03:47:16 AM
The rear brake tap however could use a little bit more effect when looping out and of course the auto clutch is horible. When you use your rear brake, whether mid air or on the ground, automatic the clutch is held until you hit the throttle again coz your bike will continue to run freewheel. Looping out could be compensated by tapping the rear brake (of course everyone knows) but the bike always goes clutch-engage and lose engine braking.
Just use manual clutch no ?

Quote from: Bj Slice on April 01, 2017, 08:41:55 AM
What went wrong? Was my landing so bad?

check this video out. thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVzRBjinZzE&feature=youtu.be
Landing hard on the rear, suspension bottoming out, force impulse being transmitted to the rider, rider legs/arm springs not soaking it up enough ==> rider "core" sees an instant g force above its max threshold and separates from the bike. That what I'd put my money on, if really obliged to :)



Bj Slice

Thanks for the reply hornet. I use automatic clutching as I don't have an extra trigger to bind it with for gradual release and pull.


I see for the landing, it was just probably a bit hard on the rear but it wasn't just noticeable on the screen. As you can see I had a decent airtime in that last jump. Thanks man!
"Practice not until you get it right. But practice until you can never get it wrong, and make it a routine"


NORCAL

I decided to ride in 3rd person to watch the rider movement, and noticed something that could be making it tough to muscle the front end down. Even with my F/B liniarity at 200, the F/B movement seems to be pretty slow, which would make it tough to time while jumping and give less effect to that motion. It seems like steering is linear, but L/R lean and F/B are a much slower rate. Any thoughts?

teeds

Quote from: Sandbiter on April 01, 2017, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Bj Slice on April 01, 2017, 08:41:55 AM
What went wrong? Was my landing so bad?

check this video out. thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVzRBjinZzE&feature=youtu.be
That's the landing on back wheel bug I talked about earlier. Annoying, isn't it? :-\

Indeed it is. Started riding on Winchester yesterday and this rear wheel landing bug seemed to happen lots on the first jump our of the pits. Simply landing with the rear wheel lower than the front on a down slope had me crash more often than not. So switched to the stock MSM 250XF and no matter how hard I tried it would not do the same, so it seems like it's just the MOD bikes or at least some of them. Is this known and understood?

Also the stock tyres on this track seemed better to me, easier to power slide, especially on off camber turns.
"Damn dirt bikers!" - Bubba

Asdrael

I can "rear bug dismount" the MSM just fine. And there are 2 different issues with dismounting when you land - one that only happens on hard landings even standing, and one that can happen on any landing (including 40cm high jump landings) when sitting at the back and landing on the back wheel. As far as I know, there is no way to prevent this (bike construction, riding technique, bike setup or whatever). It just happens.
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𝖙𝖋𝖈

I can get the msm to do it too. When I huck too big and overshoot a landing, it's instinctive to lean forward and give it gas before landing to try and land as rear wheel first as possible to absorb the impact. That's when I get ejected on all bikes :(