Author Topic: Steam version  (Read 1163 times)

PiBoSo

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Steam version
« on: August 30, 2018, 02:53:29 PM »
There has been positive feedback about the netcode changes in the latest Beta9 release ( not as positive as I hoped for, though... Is it because the old netcode wasn't that bad, or because the new one is not that good? ).

So maybe it's finally time to wrap up the Steam release.

It would be interesting to know from the community of loyal MX Bikes users what is needed to reach the goal.

What's the MUST HAVE in terms of fixes, new features and content? Just the bare minimum for the first release, not what could be added in later updates.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 03:52:01 PM by PiBoSo »

тғc

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 03:44:59 PM »
I haven't tried the new beta properly yet but will definitely come back here when I have given it a proper run :)

But, great to hear that the netcode is better, really looking forward to getting online.
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Asdrael

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 04:01:44 PM »
Well, it's been out less than 24h... I know I have been able to play it 15mins top. Not gonna get a lot of decent feedback, at least before the weekend. However...

If netcode is "fixed", what I consider the bare minimum for a decent Steam release, in order to not have a monster wave of bad reviews with 30 min played is - considering the demographic of a Steam MX game is probably 15 years old ADHD "my mom has a padded wallet" kids:


Improved multiplayer experience
It NEEDS to be easier to figure out what's going on online and how to access it. Apparently a Workshop is out of the question, so you at least need to:
  • Display ALL servers, not only the ones for which you have the track. Use a color code for the server name (black: you can connect ; red: missing bike and/or tracks)
  • Allow server hosts to have a Link section in the server information forwarding to where you can get the content needed to play on that server. Clicking a "red" server should open your browser and forward you to the download page (hardcode http://forum.mx-bikes.com/ at the start of the address to avoid porn redirects...)
  • Working friend list of who is playing where, compatible with Steam
  • Fix the online garage bug
  • Lift the server lock when a race is in progress and allow people to join anyway to spectate. No need to load a model then, should not induce any lag.
  • Avoid at all costs server disconnections. When a race is over, loop back to practice with no disconnection (remove the track list from the server ini if need be).
General physic fine-tuning
  • The suspension settings range is still way off. The rear is too soft, not enough control on the rebound, etc
  • There is a lean limit, and it's way too strict. People should be able to fall over leaning too much.
  • When whiping / scrubbing and putting the bike at 90 angle, the physics bug out and you get a wierd kick like it's violently trying to realign the bike the wrong way.
  • I'll be the first to say it, but I still think the rear tyre has a bit too much forward grip - it's really hard to make a decent start.
  • Probably some more stuff I forgot.
General polishing
We are still on "Mid Soft" tyres with no options. Asphalt is still ice skating. Half of the player assists are not really self explanatory. We still have a stability slider. Menus should be accessible using a pad (steam box users). Etc etc.

Documentation
You really need to provide a good Wiki on how to do mods. Right now, it's still very fragmented and vague information and at least for MX Bikes I would say maximum 5 people know how to build a bike from scratch, and around 10 how to build a track. Such a game thrives on community made content.


I think in terms on content, it's more than enough with the base game for a Steam release provided users will make more content. But you only have one shot on Steam, so yeah...
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gokitty199

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 04:45:43 PM »
Documentation
You really need to provide a good Wiki on how to do mods. Right now, it's still very fragmented and vague information and at least for MX Bikes I would say maximum 5 people know how to build a bike from scratch, and around 10 how to build a track. Such a game thrives on community made content.


I think in terms on content, it's more than enough with the base game for a Steam release provided users will make more content. But you only have one shot on Steam, so yeah...
thats a good post in general. i agree about the wiki, but at the same time, if someone knows how to create a bike model then i feel they have the resources to do their own research to port it in game. otherwise a list of video tutorials would be helpful from the community. i have been wanting to upload a basic track making tutorial just to get people started, but i dont think the community is really big enough yet to have a new wave of content creators.

тғc

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 04:56:51 PM »
Documentation
You really need to provide a good Wiki on how to do mods. Right now, it's still very fragmented and vague information and at least for MX Bikes I would say maximum 5 people know how to build a bike from scratch, and around 10 how to build a track. Such a game thrives on community made content.


I think in terms on content, it's more than enough with the base game for a Steam release provided users will make more content. But you only have one shot on Steam, so yeah...
thats a good post in general. i agree about the wiki, but at the same time, if someone knows how to create a bike model then i feel they have the resources to do their own research to port it in game. otherwise a list of video tutorials would be helpful from the community. i have been wanting to upload a basic track making tutorial just to get people started, but i dont think the community is really big enough yet to have a new wave of content creators.

Might be just the opposite. It might be that new content creators aren't stepping forward because the whole thing is so complicated until you figure it out..
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Mace-x

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 07:04:06 PM »
Asdrael list is pretty much everything that is still wrong, asphalt physics are like ice, supermoto Is bugged a lot aswell, can't really ride, leaning angle is way to small and would be good to have better modding tools/documentation.

HornetMaX

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2018, 11:00:12 AM »
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?

PiBoSo

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2018, 11:14:35 AM »
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?

Yes  :-[

HornetMaX

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2018, 11:22:30 AM »
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?

Yes  :-[
Isn't that the perfect situation for a hotfix-style patch ? As in "Release9b, just download the updated exe"

Maatth4

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2018, 12:03:44 PM »
A complete tutorial on creating circuits would be really good!
I think a lot of people do not want to get started because it seems very complicated to do.

тғc

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2018, 12:36:35 PM »
After thinking on it, here are my 'must haves for a Steam release:

1. Better netcode. Yes it's much better but still needs work.
- Banged bars with some people last night, worked well except the back of the bike is made of concrete and the front is made of air. Depending on where collision happens determines who goes down.
- When people join it freezes badly, or shoots you 20 feet ahead on the track

2. Jump starts. This will annoy the hell out of everyone.
- You shouldn't be able to jump start in MX, this feels like something left over or included without thinking from GPB. As Sandy said: If you jump start, your front wheel goes into the gate and won't drop until you back up. Missing the entire race because you flinched on the start line is unacceptable.

3. Server browser & Joining.
- This either needs a user created displayable list of mods the server is running with download links, or it needs to be auto download like other games.
- When you don't have something the server needs it should tell you what you're missing as others have said.

4. As said, allow people to join and spectate races in progress.

5. Last and least really, because 1 - 4 are the essentials. Gameplay / physics.
- Lean angle too high. A) I can't get the bike down low enough in some corners and B) when I do, and I'm railing a berm fast I fall off for what seems like no reason.
- Whips are great but you can throw them so far that everything locks up and you can't even attempt to recover. This sucks when you scrub too hard and feel like you could probably have saved it if it let you.
- Uphill physics allow the rear end to dance too much. I get it's not easy riding uphill but the rear should be more planted, after all with power on and good traction the rear should be very weighted.
- Bouncyness, sometimes when you brake too hard and start again and turn too much you get stuck in a weird spin bounce fest.

Overall 1 - 4 are my essentials. Physics can be fixed over time but you will find it hard to come back from a bad online experience especially in a niche like mx simulation.

Thanks for taking the time to ask and I have one more thing that is consider the most essential thing:

Put a group of testers together so you're not launching on Steam blindly. We all want this to succeed and I'd hate to see it fail because something small was overlooked, or if it works fine with 10 bikes but not 11.. etc.. you get the idea ;)
 
We need to test the maximum amount of players on the gate at once.
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iNsane

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2018, 01:41:04 PM »
Put a group of testers together so you're not launching on Steam blindly. We all want this to succeed and I'd hate to see it fail because something small was overlooked, or if it works fine with 10 bikes but not 11.. etc.. you get the idea ;)
 
We need to test the maximum amount of players on the gate at once.

so much +


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PiBoSo

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2018, 01:55:10 PM »
Admittedly, I haven't tried that recently: does the server still reply "Missing bike" or "Bike mismatch" without telling you which holy-fuc#!n-bloody bike is missing / mismatching ?

Yes  :-[
Isn't that the perfect situation for a hotfix-style patch ? As in "Release9b, just download the updated exe"

Patches are meant for code-only quick bug fixes, not improvements that need time and testing.

More connection information will be packed with other features and fixes in Beta10.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 01:57:38 PM by PiBoSo »

HornetMaX

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2018, 05:53:49 PM »
Patches are meant for code-only quick bug fixes, not improvements that need time and testing.
Agree. Just thought that the change in question was a fairly simple thing (apparently it's not the case).

More connection information will be packed with other features and fixes in Beta10.

Cool.

GDUBMX

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Re: Steam version
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2018, 09:47:32 PM »
As mentioned by Asdrael and TFC +1

And i think the ability to lean/turn way more would be great. i always find when i play this game i have to give corners a real wide approach to make the turn, i  feel like i cant turn sharply at all.

Also think the Steam Workshop style feature would be a great addition or something similar like mentioned, some server system where we can see exactly what is going, how long left of race, mods needed etc. That would be really useful and of course the ability to download all required mods to join.

I always think Steam users will complain about lack of tracks,bikes and gear etc. Currently mx bikes doesnt have any official licenses at all so we get you cannot add branded stuff, however.. can we please get a fully updated rider model from at least 2013 instead of the 80s one we have. Honestly there will be a very select few that wont know about mods and just use stock content and im sure they prefer a modern rider with modern gear,helmet and boots.

if im being perfectly honest here Piboso i think the urge to release the Steam version is a premature and id wish you just hammer out all the above and then consider it. First impressions can be lasting impressions. If you as the developer rushes the game out with what we have currently i feel it wont be well recieved. there is not really a thriving online community and zero singleplayer, hence no reason to play.

If you fixed all the stuff we've mentioned as well as create a few more tracks, update that 80s rider, better animations etc then perhaps you'd stand a better chance of a well recieved release.
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