Gyro effect and counter-steering

[Phathry25]

As far as inputs at the handle bars go, what we're actually controlling in the game, the two are remarkably similar.  When you get into the throttle on a motocross bike and the rear tire starts to spin a little bit, to prevent it from sliding out you stand the bike up a little bit to combat it.  Watch a GP rider when they turn the throttle on, the bike comes up just a little bit to keep the rear wheel in check.  It's sliding.  Yes the body positioning is wildly different, yes you need to do other things to control the bike through the bumps and ruts and use the clutch a whole lot more, but at the handle bars the two are indifferent as far as I am concerned.

Hmmm ... that 's strange: lets say you have a left turn so the bike is leaning left. You give a bit too much throttle and the rear starts to pop out.
Now you're saying that the rider stands the bike a bit to counter the rear sliding. But to do so, the rider would have to turn the handlebar lest (i.e. push right end of the bar).
This would be the opposite of what the "drift" guys are saying, no ? They would turn the bar right (push left end of it) if I understood it correctly.

For a road bike, I'd say that if turning left you lose the rear, you want to lean even more the bike left and you do this by turning the bars right.
If you turn them left and stand the bike up, you go high side.

To me you see they stand the bike because they are preparing to end the turn: go on  the fat part of the tire as early as possible and open wide. That's why they decide to slide into a turn, so that the bike is already pointing in the right direction at exit, just stand it and pin it (in that order, not the opposite).

Just found this on a bike physics book (THE book to have if you are into this stuff, V.Cossalter, Motorcycle Dynamics):

".. with an over-steering motorcycle, if the force needed for equilibrium overcomes the maximum friction force between the tire and the road plane, the rear wheel slips, but the expert rider, with a counter-steering maneuver, has a better chance of controlling the vehicle equilibrium and avoiding a fall" (page 113, paragraph 4.3, you have it on google books: http://books.google.fr/books?id=rJTQxITnkbgC&pg=PA105&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false).

First video example I can think of (@1.24):

https://www.youtube.com/v/_OhvhjpkhiU#t=84

And that's my unsolicited $0.02

Unsolicited maybe, but much appreciated. By me at least

DISCLAIMER: I don't post often here so most of you do not "know" me. I ride only road bikes and on public roads, mostly within the limits (ouch). So I have zero track experience on road bikes. On MX bikes I have, if possible, even less experience. But I try hard to understand the physics of all this (not that that will make me a better rider, of course). So I definitely can be wrong.

MaX.

P.S.
I'm still veeeery interested in having Piboso's reply to my previous questions (exact definition of over/under steer and "steer more").
I'd surely have to mull it over (and it's almost 2am here now), but I'm under the impression that the virtual rider trying to even out over/under steering may be a bad idea: when a rider wants to slide into a turn, he does not want the bike to have zero over/under-steering ...

In a limit case, 90deg right turn (going north, turn to east) where you enter with the bike (and the rear tire) pointing to east and the front tire poiting nord (rear sideslip = 90 and front sideslip = 0), i.e. fully sideways, the whole concept of under/over steer is not even defined: the kinematic turn center is the rear contact patch ...

Sadly I don't understand the physics of it all, but I know how to ride them.  What you are seeing Stoner do in that video is exactly what I was trying to explain.  He stands the bike up a bit to get the extra grip of the fat part of the tire, and to stop the rear tire from sliding out more.  That said the fat part of the tire is not critical to stopping the rear tire from sliding out more.  Flat track tires have a round profile, and the same thing applies, even with a speedway bike and it's more square tire, it does the same thing.  I suppose you are lowering the lateral load on the tire, so it doesn't want to slip laterally as much.  What happens at the handle bars to make this all work is unfortunately beyond my grasp at this point.  You have to remember that the left or right it always relative, maybe it does start as a quick jerk to the left to get the bike upright, and then to the right to maintain balance, much as you did when the wheels were in line.  So even though the handle bars are to the right of center, you can still be turning (pushing) them to the left.  You are most definitely still working the bars to the left and right as you slide, even though they are always to the right of center.

Either way, to save yourself from a low side you would want the bike to stand up, if it's already too far gone, yes, you would highside.  But for the purpose of this discussion I'm going to assume it's a slide that can be ridden through.  In which case you would not want to increase the lateral load on the tire, that will result in a lowside crash.  Which is partly what is happening in MX Bikes right now, but it's the front tire that is sliding out, even though it's load should remain the same, or at least within it's workable range.  (can't find the right words here, help!)  The front tire can take a higher lateral load than the rear due to it's shape, and not having to deal with acceleration.

From my basic understanding a tire only has so much grip, no matter the direction of the load.  You're sliding on corner entry because the rear tire is dealing with two forces, braking, and turning.  Lets say deceleration is using 10% of the Longitidunal load, turning can use the other 90%, granted the gross friction is also affected by the lack of weight on the tire.  Mid corner it's only turning (mainly, for this example play along) and therefore can focus all it's friction on holding the tire in place, and turning/leaning at it's peak.  When you accelerate you're suddenly placing much more longitudinal load on the tire, say 50%, that leaves 50% for lateral, which means you cannot lean the bike as far over.  You're able to maintain the same turning radius by sliding the bike, back wheel driving at a sharper radius than what you're actually turning but it's sliding sideways as well, I suppose.  Hitting a rut and having your bike straighten up on you can be a big problem in flat track, depending on how far away the nearest wall is, you lose your turning radius.  They also noted this in MaX's video.  Too much drive is an actual problem sometimes, you just want the rear tire to slide so you can turn sharper.

I hate to sound so critical, to say it's wrong and not offer any resolution or reason.  I know it is, weather it's the tires or the virtual rider I don't have a clue, but in real life this sliding is common place.   

DISCLAIMER:I am not a physicist, or an engineer, and words like load and force are probably being grossly misused in my posts.  I realize using flat track as an example of how a MX sim should work sounds asinine, but if you give it a chance you'll see that for the purposes of this discussion it's perfect.  It's a motocross bike, and it slides.  Obviously speedway is a prime example of how a motorcycle can slide, but they don't use motocross bikes for speedway, do they?  See, it's perfect!

SECOND DISCLAIMER:I am an asshole.  I will come across as an asshole.  Sorry.  My intentions are not to be an asshole, it just happens.  My intentions are to improve PiBoSo's motorcycle sims but offering my opinions and views.  Granted I have never ridden a GP bike at speed, and most of my experience is in flat track racing.  I have been racing motorcycles for over 20 years, professionally at one point.  Sometimes on asphalt, sometimes on dirt.  I've ridden supermoto a bunch.  I can, from experience, compare how a racing slick and a dirt track tire and a motocross tire work on dirt and pavement.  I also grew up with a very analytically father, so I was lucky enough to learn why and how I went fast, not just to go fast.  Seriously, he taught me everything I needed to do to succeed in ride a motorcycle around in circles really fast, which is more nuanced that you would think, and I swear to you he has never ridden a motorcycle in his life.  This is why I feel like I can offer an unique perspective, that is worth sharing and getting yelled at over and over again.  Sorry that I come across like I do.  Deal with it, I have to every day of my life.

[GDUBMX]

Wow. My brain is fried with all this talk about physicists and biometric sequential release mechanisms.
However seen a total different side to some of you guys which is really cool. Nice to see all this passion. Great insight guys.

[EdouardB]

You are grossly underestimating how much a GP bike slides around on a track. 

Phathry25, I wasn't talking about Gp bikes in particular. These do slide a lot but it's mostly because the riders are amazing.

I was talking about the average motocross rider vs the average roadracing guy.
In about 100 track days (most of them in the fast group) I've almost never seen the rear end of a bike sliding in a consistent and predictable way with a good amount of opposite lock.
Whereas in motocross you see it all the time from average riders...

So all i'm saying is that at an amateur level sliding is easier off road and therefore should be easier in MX bikes than in Gp bikes. I'm a much better road racer than I am an MX rider and yet I can slide a bike easily off road and not on asphalt.

The images of GP riders sliding the bike have given the impression to the public that everyone in road racing does that.  Go to any track day and try to see anyone sliding in an MX way at an amateur level or even a national level: you won't see many at all.

That's really all I was saying. The GP guys are very unique in their skills... Most national riders I've shared the track with didn't slide much except under braking.

Last month I followed GP rider Jules Danilo on his 125 for training for a whole lap (I was on my 600 and able to follow, only because of the bike ) and I didn't see any sliding from him, even in very very slow turns where his bike would have enough power for it (but I do agree it's not the best example because sliding is rarer on smaller bikes ).

I'm talking bout corner exits, not the beginning of turns by the way.
Also when I say road racing I'm talking about road racing bikes, not supermoto bikes that have a completely different geometry.

[HornetMaX]

What you are seeing Stoner do in that video is exactly what I was trying to explain.  He stands the bike up a bit to get the extra grip of the fat part of the tire, and to stop the rear tire from sliding out more. 

Hmm ... not what I see (and not what books say). Maybe a better video (for our purpose):

https://www.youtube.com/v/0t7RiKMUsDc

The rear slides, he does not control it by picking up the bike. He does quite the opposite: he turns the bars right, drift-style (opposite lock).
This avoids that the rear "coming around the bike", i.e. limits the yawing of the bike. The bike speed vector will be directed as the front tire (as in car drifting, or in speedway).
The rear will have a large sideslip angle while the front a little/smaller one.

Either way, to save yourself from a low side you would want the bike to stand up, if it's already too far gone, yes, you would highside.  But for the purpose of this discussion I'm going to assume it's a slide that can be ridden through.  In which case you would not want to increase the lateral load on the tire, that will result in a lowside crash.  Which is partly what is happening in MX Bikes right now, but it's the front tire that is sliding out, even though it's load should remain the same, or at least within it's workable range.  (can't find the right words here, help!)  The front tire can take a higher lateral load than the rear due to it's shape, and not having to deal with acceleration.

Wait wait, let's leave the front tire sliding out out, that's another (hot) topic (for GPB too). Here we were discussing only the rear sliding out (turn entry or mid turn).

The more I think about it the more I tend to think that the difficulty of "sliding the rear" in GPB and MXB do come from the way the virtual rider tries to handle the over/under steering.

My assumption was that the "steering" input of GPB/MXB was the target lean angle (because that is what has always been stated about it), but with what Piboso has just said (pending clarifications) it seems more like the steering input dictates the turning radius of the trajectory (as the virtual rider tries to fight over/under steering): not the same thing ! If this is confirmed it could explain quite a while:

• it could explain why it's hard to slide & countersteer to control it: the virtual rider just can't do that while at the same time trying to zero-out the over/understeer.
• it could explain why we lose the front: if the bike starts to understeer (go wide) the virtual rider try to steer more (kinematically, i.e. turn the bars more left for a left turn), increasing the chances of sliding and losing the front.

If the input was really on the target lean angle, when the rear starts to slide out in a left turn, you could push your steering stick more to the left to lean more: this would eventually push the bars right, realising the countersteering we're looking for in order to control the slide.

Definitely more thinking needed, but ...

MaX.

P.S.
It would be nice to know exactly what the virtual rider does, but I do understand Piboso may not want to disclose this too openly.

P.P.S.
Maybe time to start a separate thread on the subject. I'll open one on the GPB forum (ASAP, got to go for a while now), just because there are other knowledgeable people that may have something to say. But please Phatry25 join in !!

[𝖙𝖋𝖈]

You don't ride a motocross bike anything like you do a street bike. Hard to explain, but there is so much more going on with a motocross bike.

I'm sticking with this

+1 really, they are both subjected to the same forces on the flat, a dirt track surface is infinitely more complex and changing, and then of course you have jumps.

[Phathry25]

Hmm ... not what I see (and not what books say). Maybe a better video (for our purpose):

https://www.youtube.com/v/0t7RiKMUsDc

The rear slides, he does not control it by picking up the bike. He does quite the opposite: he turns the bars right, drift-style (opposite lock).
This avoids that the rear "coming around the bike", i.e. limits the yawing of the bike. The bike speed vector will be directed as the front tire (as in car drifting, or in speedway).
The rear will have a large sideslip angle while the front a little/smaller one.

Does he steer to the right? IE to the right of the vector.  Or does the front wheel/steering angle continue along the same path as the rear tire steps out to the right and the handle bars turn to the right because they align with the direction of travel, and the actual steering input remains about the same, minus what it would take to balance the slide. I would think in actuality he is steering left of the bike speed vector, or whatever fancy book learning term means the direction the bike is traveling, just as you would to balance yourself in a corner of the rear wheel was not sliding. If he was steering to the right of that vector he would induce more lean and more sliding and then lowside.

I guess my question is is counter-steering (the motorcycle kind) dependent on the vector the bike is traveling or on the lateral location of the rear wheel?

[HornetMaX]

Does he steer to the right? IE to the right of the vector.  Or does the front wheel/steering angle continue along the same path as the rear tire steps out to the right and the handle bars turn to the right because they align with the direction of travel, and the actual steering input remains about the same, minus what it would take to balance the slide. I would think in actuality he is steering left of the bike speed vector, or whatever fancy book learning term means the direction the bike is traveling, just as you would to balance yourself in a corner of the rear wheel was not sliding. If he was steering to the right of that vector he would induce more lean and more sliding and then lowside.

I guess my question is is counter-steering (the motorcycle kind) dependent on the vector the bike is traveling or on the lateral location of the rear wheel?

I see what you mean. I think he actually steers right, because otherwise (actual steering input remaining about the same) he wouldn't be able to counter the yawing moment of the bike (rotation around vertical axis).

In any case, it doesn't really really matter: what matters is that if the virtual rider tries hard to keep a steering ratio of 1 (i.e. no oversteer nor understeer), it's gonna be hard to control a slide.

I need to have a look at a couple more things, but I do think we may have stumbled on something interesting here ...

MaX.

[girlracerTracey]

Does he steer to the right? IE to the right of the vector.  Or does the front wheel/steering angle continue along the same path as the rear tire steps out to the right and the handle bars turn to the right because they align with the direction of travel, and the actual steering input remains about the same, minus what it would take to balance the slide. I would think in actuality he is steering left of the bike speed vector, or whatever fancy book learning term means the direction the bike is traveling, just as you would to balance yourself in a corner of the rear wheel was not sliding. If he was steering to the right of that vector he would induce more lean and more sliding and then lowside.

I guess my question is is counter-steering (the motorcycle kind) dependent on the vector the bike is traveling or on the lateral location of the rear wheel?

I see what you mean. I think he actually steers right, because otherwise (actual steering input remaining about the same) he wouldn't be able to counter the yawing moment of the bike (rotation around vertical axis).

In any case, it doesn't really really matter: what matters is that if the virtual rider tries hard to keep a steering ratio of 1 (i.e. no oversteer nor understeer), it's gonna be hard to control a slide.

I need to have a look at a couple more things, but I do think we may have stumbled on something interesting here ...

MaX.

Hi Max. I have come here to haunt you. 

All I would say, as someone who comes from a racing family (my father raced extensively, my brother races now and I have raced myself in the past) is that in real life, in the context of rear wheel steering (as illustrated by the Marc Marquez video in its more extreme form) the steering input comes from the rear. Not the front end. Hence the term "rear wheel steering". The handlebars change their angle to the rear wheel (and to the rest of the bike from the steering yoke backwards) in response to the rear wheel moving out of line in relation to the front wheel. The technique is often used to tighten the bike's angle of trajectory on the exit to a turn. To run it to the side of the track whilst maximising acceleration out of the bend. Slightly less throttle reduces the rate of turn. Slightly more tightens it. The technique is also used sometimes to adjust a bike's trajectory of approach to a bend whilst riding between bends. I think most if not all road racing fans and certainly the majority of real life racers understand what is going on with this. It is possible to an extent to also provide some steering input from the front end whilst in the process of rear wheel steering but most of the control comes from the right hand via the rear tyre. Apologies if I am stating the obvious with this.

Also as an observation on this I personally think it is mistaken to underestimate the ability of experienced real life racers to employ the technique of rear wheel steering on the race track. I believe it is not a technique limited to world class motogp or superbike racers. Of course this is all about degrees and extents but that being said there are plenty of experienced and advanced club racers, national level racers and indeed international racers who are able to make use of this technique on a race track. If you are racing at a competitive level I would suggest this technique is employed and made use of quite often in fact. It is far from being just the likes of Marc Marquez who can rear wheel steer. But it is employed to a much lesser extent than witnessed in that video. It is more commonly employed at a reduced level to maximise the acceleration of a bike out of a bend. Dependent upon whether the bend in question and track/tyre condition is appropriate for its use. It's all part and parcel I would suggest of the technique of road racing at a competitive level. On a big four stroke with plenty of power in particular.. I am not talking about lurid power slides here but I am talking about a limited degree of rear wheel steering being made use of if the circumstances and conditions permit..in order to lap slightly faster. My father used a degree of rear wheel steering when he raced (1980s) and my in the modern era I would say that it is most definitely used too.

I too think you are on to something Max with regard to the role the virtual rider may have in inhibiting the bikes' ability to rear wheel steer in gpbikes.

Just my two cents.

grT 

P.S. am I on the wrong forum? lol. 

[EdouardB]

It is far from being just the likes of Marc Marquez who can rear wheel steer. But it is employed to a much lesser extent than witnessed in that video

And a much much lesser extent than in Motocross!!!

Also I still want to add that a lot of good racers don't use the technique at all. A good riding buddy of mine races in the front at a national level (he's the 2014 "European Bikes" champion in France on a BMW S1000RR) and doesn't use this except with a very very small amplitude.

The problem I have with people saying that in roadracing rear wheel turning is used a lot, is that it gives the impression that it's used in every single turn by every guy. That's just totally wrong. However in MX it IS used in almost every turn and by almost every guy and that was my initial point. My initial point being that it's much harder to do in road racing than in MX. That was my only point.

I still like you Tracey of course <3

[girlracerTracey]

And a much much lesser extent than in Motocross!!!

Of course. I agree. That goes without saying really. It's a different "game" and  a different technique.

Also I still want to add that a lot of good racers don't use the technique at all. A good riding buddy of mine races in the front at a national level (he's the 2014 "European Bikes" champion in France on a BMW S1000RR) and doesn't use this except with a very very small amplitude.

"Front end" riders versus rear wheel steerers. Both techniques can be fast and competitive. Barry Sheene versus Kenny Roberts Snr being a case in point.

The problem I have with people saying that in roadracing rear wheel turning is used a lot, is that it gives the impression that it's used in every single turn by every guy. That's just totally wrong. However in MX it IS used in almost every turn and by almost every guy and that was my initial point. My initial point being that it's much harder to do in road racing than in MX. That was my only point.

I think it is used quite a lot. By a certain type of rider. Not on every bend. And as I said before to a much lesser extent than portrayed in the Marc Marquez video. To a far, far lesser extent than it is employed in motocross.  That being said it is employed to a limited degree quite commonly on corner exits in road racing. You can see this from the side of a track (Thruxton in the U.K. for example) in a BSB event. There is quite a lot of rear wheel steering going on to a limited degree by many of the riders on the exit to some of the bends. Limited rear wheel steering. Not lurid power sliding. There is a big difference. But to that limited degree it is present and you can view it from a suitable "eye-level" track side vantage point.  I have seen it for myself. I have spoken to some of the riders concerned about what they are doing on the track.

My father, to a limited degree, even managed to rear wheel steered a production GPZ1100 Kawasaki that he rode for a dealership team in the early 1980s. Only on a few bends on a few tracks though when approaching the "limit". I think modern racers can & do employ the same corner exit technique. On certain bends under certain conditions when it is appropriate to do so. To a limited and controllable extent. You might perhaps be more inclined to call this "rear wheel slippage"(?) however the fact remains they are steering, to a limited degree, from the rear. That's why they do it.  Within the parameters I have described it is quite common. Not everyone does it but many do. The crucial thing being with this that if you break traction on the rear too much you lose your forward momentum rather than increase it. So it has to be done in a limited and a controlled manner. I suppose this is one of the reasons that traction control settings are so important in modern day racing.

To play devil's advocate in this I think it is slightly misleading to suggest that rear wheel steering is not employed (to a limited extent) quite commonly in modern era racing. I suppose what I am saying is that lurid power slides as displayed by the likes of Marc Marquez & Casey Stoner are an extreme & quite rare form of rear wheel steering. But just as a BSB rider slides the rear a bit on the exit to some corners on certain race tracks these are both examples of the same thing. Just that we are talking about opposite ends of the same spectrum of rear steering.

That's all I am saying. 

grT

[EdouardB]

I understand your point of view. Also I liked the Barry Sheene vs Kenny Roberts point which is true and shows that both are possible. Anyway, I say we head back to the MX discussion as this is an MX Simulator forum. Otherwise the mods will kill us.

I think Max could be on to something with the virtual rider messing up the input around the handlebars especially when sliding... Also, Max, what about what Noss found out on the French forums? Have you made sense of it all yet? Also I'm still waiting for you to come to Paris to ride with me at the racetrack

[girlracerTracey]

Yes indeed. 

Heartfelt apologies to all members of the mx bikes forum from yours truly. It's about time I got an official warning from one of the mods I think..

Interesting to compare notes though with you guys. Very interesting also to read the threads on this forum I have to say from the parallel world of motocross. It's a brilliant sport guys..!

grT 

[Stoneybonezz]

The dynamics, suspension, and traction of a gp bike are all  too different to compare the two imo. Good job starting a thread 

[Phathry25]

What you are forgetting eddy is that the dirt is not being simulated. Heck, the knobby tire isn't being simulated either. In real life a MX tire is not built to provide lateral grip, the dirt does that. Think sand tire on blue groove, you're gunna have a bad time.  And you're not going to see average joe sliding the bike around all willy nilly no matter what tire he has on.

I'm working on the assumption that our tire simulation is still the same as GP Bikes. Which is for a treaded or slick tire where the contact patch is used to determine grip. Where as a MX tire gets its grip from the edges digging into the dirt, on loose dirt obviously. On blue groove where the tire can't dig in its crap because it has a teeny tiny contact patch in comparison to a treaded tire. So since we can't feasibly simulate the dirt or the tire were left with essentially a flat track/TT simulator. Also great for supermoto. Which is why I think it is important to look at the game in this light. Especially when it comes to cornering expectations.

I agree with you that it is more common for average joe (AJ) to rear wheel steer in the dirt I don't think it is a realistic expectation to see the real life example of the two wheels never being in line on a freshly groomed sandy/loamy track that you are asking for.  And honestly AJ isn't sliding under those circumstances in the way that Marquez is. What's happening there is that due to the dirt the slip speed of the tire is much greater, meaning that it doesn't produce its maximum grip until a much higher rate of slip. Take a look at this slip curve for a treaded tire...



Notice how it builds to a quick peak. What I would call a slipping tire is a tire that is slipping at a rate on the up slope of that graph. It creates its highest friction at the peak. This is also what I would call riding within your limits, with the peak obviously being the knife edge we often hear about in racing. Any thing after the peak is sliding or exceeding the "limits" of the tire. When you factor in the dirt and tire having to dig in to create grip you have something much more like this.



This isn't a graph of a slip curve for a knobby tire in dirt, but an example of what I think it could look like. As you can see it creates its peak grip at a much higher slip rate. Meaning that yes AJ can get much more slideways, but it still well within the limits of the tire. Which is why you see AJ slipping a lot more on the dirt.

Why am I going through this effort to say I agree with you?  Well we need a better way to simulate this. If indeed it is the rider making it harder to rear wheel steer that needs to be addressed, but what if it's the ground/tires, which are certainly part of the equation.  What do we do?  Apply the dirt tire slip curve?  Then you have no front end feel and will pretty much tuck the front everytime you turn. That's not a real great solution is it?  Having different front and rear curves could work, but it's not ideal either and way wrong.

We need a better way to simulate the ground, not the rider or tires so much.  I thinking adding resistance as the tire tries to slip more is a possible solution, but not correct for all types of dirt either. There's a reason why there's no mainstream games out there simulating dirt based racing you know.  Of course for cars they're still running a treaded tire so the effect isn't nearly as strong and they still won't touch it. 

Stoney is way off base though. Especially when you consider what is and isn't/can and can't be simulated.

[PiBoSo]

What you are forgetting eddy is that the dirt is not being simulated. Heck, the knobby tire isn't being simulated either. In real life a MX tire is not built to provide lateral grip, the dirt does that. Think sand tire on blue groove, you're gunna have a bad time.  And you're not going to see average joe sliding the bike around all willy nilly no matter what tire he has on.

I'm working on the assumption that our tire simulation is still the same as GP Bikes. Which is for a treaded or slick tire where the contact patch is used to determine grip. Where as a MX tire gets its grip from the edges digging into the dirt, on loose dirt obviously. On blue groove where the tire can't dig in its crap because it has a teeny tiny contact patch in comparison to a treaded tire. So since we can't feasibly simulate the dirt or the tire were left with essentially a flat track/TT simulator. Also great for supermoto. Which is why I think it is important to look at the game in this light. Especially when it comes to cornering expectations.

Your assumption is wrong.
A big deal of time has been spent to simulate dirt sinking and bulldozing effects on the tire with knobs.
Sure the algorithms and parameters need tuning, but the code is mostly there.
Another assumption you make is wrong: tires still generate lateral force at the contact point, even with low grip.