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How is the game going?

Started by motopsycho87, January 10, 2015, 01:47:41 PM

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Ruubs

Just so you know..

I believe JLV doesn't add left/right movement because that'll fuck up the physics. In the first release of the game there wasn't even back/forward movement, so we should be happy that that was able to get in the game, and work this good.

If he does add left/right movement he'd have to change the physics as well.

HornetMaX

Quote from: rc4187 on February 06, 2015, 07:28:59 PM
Here are some clear examples of pro's leaning/shifting weight that aren't just whips and scrubs. Watch a race with long straights with deep ruts or even a mud race and tell me how neutral they stay on the bike.
Notice also how often the rider "counter leans" (i.e. it leans towards the exterior of the turn): that basically never happens on road bikes (when on track).
Is the auto-rider lean in MXB any different from the sam ein GPB ?

MaX.

teeds

I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view. This might better as a default, then allow players to lean with the bike optionally. Seems to be used more often than not irl, even on big high banks the bike can be lent over further than the riders torso.
"Damn dirt bikers!" - Bubba

HornetMaX

Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 02:40:45 PM
I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view.
According to a friend (with better knowledge of MX than me), the "better view" reason is the main reason why one "counter-leans" in MX: you just need to have a better view of the track surface.

MaX.

teeds

Quote from: HornetMaX on February 16, 2015, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 02:40:45 PM
I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view.
According to a friend (with better knowledge of MX than me), the "better view" reason is the main reason why one "counter-leans" in MX: you just need to have a better view of the track surface.
I should perhaps of said "it looks more like the real thing", I don't actually see any better, in fact while leaning I can probably see less of the dirt in front of me.

That's a curious answer to me, I've ridden lots irl and have never heard of, or considered myself, the view to be a reason for this leaning? In my mind it's more to do with counter balancing, getting weight to the outside peg and being able to deal with the bikes unexpected movements outwards.
"Damn dirt bikers!" - Bubba

HornetMaX

Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 04:13:02 PM
That's a curious answer to me, I've ridden lots irl and have never heard of, or considered myself, the view to be a reason for this leaning? In my mind it's more to do with counter balancing, getting weight to the outside peg and being able to deal with the bikes unexpected movements outwards.
Maybe it's just the fact that as you do want to stick your inside leg out, then you have no other choice ...

Anyway, on this stuff I'd trust your experience more than my "intuition" any day.

MaX.

rc4187

Quote from: HornetMaX on February 16, 2015, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: teeds on February 16, 2015, 02:40:45 PM
I've started using this "counter leaning" and I think it makes a difference in that I can turn tighter when used together with leaning forwards. It also looks better from 1st person view.
According to a friend (with better knowledge of MX than me), the "better view" reason is the main reason why one "counter-leans" in MX: you just need to have a better view of the track surface.

MaX.

Tip#8
http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups
"The hardest place to make up time is on flat, hard, dry and slippery turns. Everybody is sliding around, and, in fear of spinning out, they back off the throttle to get traction. But, you can go through flat turns faster if you know the secret of weighting the outside peg.As you enter a flat turn, concentrate on putting weight (pressure) on the outside footpeg. As the bike is leaned into the turn, your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls. The best way to weight the outside peg is to place your knee against the tank and press down hard."


HornetMaX

Quote from: rc4187 on February 17, 2015, 04:00:52 AM
Tip#8
http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups
"The hardest place to make up time is on flat, hard, dry and slippery turns. Everybody is sliding around, and, in fear of spinning out, they back off the throttle to get traction. But, you can go through flat turns faster if you know the secret of weighting the outside peg.As you enter a flat turn, concentrate on putting weight (pressure) on the outside footpeg. As the bike is leaned into the turn, your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls. The best way to weight the outside peg is to place your knee against the tank and press down hard."
I don't doubt it works, but the given justification smells: I don't see how putting more pressure on the outside peg will load the suspension more than keeping the pressure on the two pegs.

MaX.

rc4187

Quote from: HornetMaX on February 17, 2015, 09:25:35 AM
Quote from: rc4187 on February 17, 2015, 04:00:52 AM
Tip#8
http://motocrossactionmag.com/home-page/mx-education-how-to-be-faster-by-next-weekend-without-pushups
"The hardest place to make up time is on flat, hard, dry and slippery turns. Everybody is sliding around, and, in fear of spinning out, they back off the throttle to get traction. But, you can go through flat turns faster if you know the secret of weighting the outside peg.As you enter a flat turn, concentrate on putting weight (pressure) on the outside footpeg. As the bike is leaned into the turn, your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls. The best way to weight the outside peg is to place your knee against the tank and press down hard."
I don't doubt it works, but the given justification smells: I don't see how putting more pressure on the outside peg will load the suspension more than keeping the pressure on the two pegs.

MaX.

You can totally load the suspension weighing both pegs... the problem becomes a balance issue when weighing both in a corner. Putting weight to the inside of the bike makes the bike prone to low side.

HornetMaX

Quote from: rc4187 on February 17, 2015, 07:22:41 PM
You can totally load the suspension weighing both pegs... the problem becomes a balance issue when weighing both in a corner. Putting weight to the inside of the bike makes the bike prone to low side.
Which is pretty different from Tip#8's explanation "your body provides counter pressure to the outside of the bike to load the suspension and flex the sidewalls" :)

MaX.

𝖙𝖋𝖈

I didn't want to get involved, but hey:

The outside leg putting pressure on the peg is forcing the bike upright. I know it might sound odd, but you know how bikes just want to stand up when accelerating. This outside leg pressure on the peg can be increased or decreased easily to help either keep the bike in a corner stance or to stop the bike from sliding out from underneath.

HornetMaX

Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
The outside leg putting pressure on the peg is forcing the bike upright. I know it might sound odd, but you know how bikes just want to stand up when accelerating.
That's a totally different thing.

The "pressure" one can put on a peg is due to gravity, it's the rider's weight. This is directed downward, no matter the lean angle of the bike.
If the wheels are on the ground, the bike is like an inverted pendulum: as soon as it's not vertical you won't be able to pick it up with only a downward force, no matter where you apply it, inside or outside. Give how close to the bike middle the pegs are (they extends just a little lo the left/right), even a small lean should make a force on the outer peg translate in the bike falling even more on the inside.

Again, I have no reason at all to doubt that "putting pressure on the outside peg" is the proper thing to do. It's just the explanation of why it is so that is still unclear to me.

MaX.


𝖙𝖋𝖈

February 17, 2015, 08:54:27 PM #27 Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 08:58:07 PM by TheFatController
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 17, 2015, 08:29:38 PM
Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
The outside leg putting pressure on the peg is forcing the bike upright. I know it might sound odd, but you know how bikes just want to stand up when accelerating.
That's a totally different thing.

The "pressure" one can put on a peg is due to gravity, it's the rider's weight. This is directed downward, no matter the lean angle of the bike.
If the wheels are on the ground, the bike is like an inverted pendulum: as soon as it's not vertical you won't be able to pick it up with only a downward force, no matter where you apply it, inside or outside. Give how close to the bike middle the pegs are (they extends just a little lo the left/right), even a small lean should make a force on the outer peg translate in the bike falling even more on the inside.

Again, I have no reason at all to doubt that "putting pressure on the outside peg" is the proper thing to do. It's just the explanation of why it is so that is still unclear to me.

MaX.

Actually - not saying you're wrong as I don't have a studied knowledge of physics, but I'm pretty sure the force on the peg from the outside leg isn't due to gravity, wouldn't it be due to the rider forcing his leg down into the peg, and with it half his body weight. There's a lot more being pushed onto the outside (or maybe more sensibly put 'top side') of the bike than just a foot on a peg. And in any case maybe you can enlighten me here, wouldn't it be centripetal force? i.e it doesn't just apply to the bike and rider cornering on the horizontal plane (keeping the rider in the seat) but also applies to the bike on the vertical axis? i.e if a rider suddenly stopped controlling a bike going around a flattish corner - the bike would try and upright itself and flip over? i.e:

A body following a curved path's direction is orthogonal to the velocity (the horizontal centripetal force) of the body towards the fixed point of the instantaneous centre (the ground) of curvature of the path.

It probably doesn't help that I am not talking from a physics standpoint, more just experience. And trying to highlight some things going on which people just go with as second nature, don't pay any attention to - and just do.

You're in a corner, the bike is down on it's side in a controlled corner, accelerating the bike tries to level out, you can control the balance between the bike trying to upright, and a potential slide out with the outside leg and the upright body position. Someone else needs to provide a more detailed explanation. I am unwell and going back to bed  :-\

Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
I didn't want to get involved, but hey:

That's what I get for being interested :)

PizzaChet

Quote from: motopsycho87 on January 10, 2015, 01:47:41 PMThe biggest draw to me is online play, is it very active? ...doesn't have a hell of a following yet, just looking for some reassurance really that I'm not chucking my money away :)
If all you're after is online play, you'll be disappointed at the amount of people online at any given time. I bought it because I like Piboso's sims even if the servers are empty. Hope that changes since I want for MXB to succeed.
Quote from: YodaIf no mistake have you made, yet losing you are ... a different game you should play.

HornetMaX

Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:54:27 PM
Actually - not saying you're wrong as I don't have a studied knowledge of physics, but I'm pretty sure the force on the peg from the outside leg isn't due to gravity, wouldn't it be due to the rider forcing his leg down into the peg, and with it half his body weight.
The body weight is due to gravity :)

To "force your leg down into the peg" you have to hold yourself to something. What would that something be ? the only thing you can hold on to is the bike itself, so at best you're generating an internal force. If you hold yourself to the handlebars and push your leg into the peg, your' generating a force that tries to separate the bars from the peg: this does not translate into a downward force  overall on the bike. It's internal.

Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:54:27 PM
There's a lot more being pushed onto the outside (or maybe more sensibly put 'top side') of the bike than just a foot on a peg. And in any case maybe you can enlighten me here, wouldn't it be centripetal force?
That could be: as the body is under centrifugal force (being pushed outwards with respect to the turn), if you can transfer some of that force to the outer peg, you can have a force that helps you avoiding the bike falling inside.

Quote from: TheFatController on February 17, 2015, 08:54:27 PM
i.e if a rider suddenly stopped controlling a bike going around a flattish corner - the bike would try and upright itself and flip over?
In reality that depends on a lot of things, but I see what you mean.

MaX.