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Realistic Risks.

Started by MotoRogers499, February 20, 2014, 12:31:36 AM

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moto28

I actually think the opposite. I believe it would be an advantage due to the fact that they know they are getting sketchy and just respawn and keep going. As to real life if you were out in front and go down say at the bottom of a jump you got to get to your bike while avoiding incoming bikes which can take up more time for your mistake. Same goes for if someone else goes down, others mistakes can mess you up too say if there bike is at the bottom of the jump and you cant avoid you got a giant mess. But if the rider respawns onto the side of the track they will just carelessly pull back on wnd more than likely be more of an issue for others rather than themselves

DD

So what you guys are saying is that their are pros and cons to each idea and they are weighed pretty evenly. Exactly why JLV has left his crash system the way it is (not that I like it).

uollie

I don't see a flaw with my idea. If a guy crashes in front of me, I just avoid the bike. JLV's crashes include a bike/rider awkwardly tumbling left to right unpredictably. And guessing where the respawned rider will be is easy to perceive ahead of time since he would spawn where the bike crashed, which you would avoid anyway.

Pro's:
1. I can more easily avoid carnage since a bike without a rider flailing on the bike won't change the bikes direction when crashing.

2. Crashed riders will re-spawn on bike's last position (whether it's on track or off track) No riders running across the track, trolling, being stupid, getting hit by other riders.

3. Ragdoll riders make crashes look cooler! Plus in MXS, the distance a rider crashes from the point of error to the point where the crash has come to a rest is much further than a real crash simply because the rider acts as an added counterweight to the flipping and is helping the bike keep its momentum while crashing.

What are some cons? I know there must be at least one, but I'm having trouble thinking of what might be annoying or game breaking with it.

DD

It's a choice between realism and functionality (I feel like there is a better word for this situation but this is all I could come up with).

More realistic = more frustration
Functionality = less

Obviously we want the realism, that's why we are all here, but you have to agree that there is a line to draw for a video game, even a simulator.

It will be interesting to see what PiBoSo and Snappe decide to do. Honestly, everyone's ideas are pretty cool in their own right.

uollie

Hmm maybe I'm not explaining it well because I feel like what I have pictured is more realistic and functional at the same time compared to what most of us know in MXS.

I think the way MXS does it is best for JLV's game but since Piboso's GP bikes already has rider falloff then I'm thinking MX bikes probably will too. In fact we're probably wasting our time discussing it since Piboso already has it figured out, but I suppose I like to talk about it anyway haha. GP bikes does basically what I want to see about 90% of the way. In that game, you crash but you respawn back on the track everytime, but for good reason since spawning in dirt and grass would suck on a 1000cc bike.

Perhaps my definition of frustrating is more lenient than someone else's though too.

acr21

The only thing I don't like about the way GP bikes handles crashing is you don't spawn where your bike ended up, you spawn where your rider ended up. This seems like the least realistic way to handle it since the rider would certainly have to run to the bike and not the other way around.

MX181

Quote from: DD on February 22, 2014, 09:08:24 PM
It's a choice between realism and functionality (I feel like there is a better word for this situation but this is all I could come up with).

More realistic = more frustration
Functionality = less

Obviously we want the realism, that's why we are all here, but you have to agree that there is a line to draw for a video game, even a simulator.

It will be interesting to see what PiBoSo and Snappe decide to do. Honestly, everyone's ideas are pretty cool in their own right.

But with that said it's probably easy to guess what they will do aswell

Live by the YOLO - UID #2

moto28

I personally think more frustration will come from respawning. Just for the fact that falling wouldnt be as much of a fear in the game. That being said will more than likely encourage goons and trolls who will try and punt you as soon as you spawn etc. But i feel like if we had the rider animation physics and such it would make it less of a "Desire" to crash, and not worry about it. For example The mx vs atv series you can crash and litteraly be back on track and going again within 3 seconds. To me this isnt fair just because of the fact that people will try and go huge and be complete idiots Just because a crash isnt a big deal. You all have great points to your statements just stating my own. :)

uollie

Quote from: moto28 on February 22, 2014, 09:57:46 PM
For example The mx vs atv series you can crash and litteraly be back on track and going again within 3 seconds. To me this isnt fair just because of the fact that people will try and go huge and be complete idiots Just because a crash isnt a big deal.

To add to that; That's where the crash penalty will play in effect. The harder the crash, the longer you must wait for the re-spawn. So the way I've imagined it is, someone tries a triple in a rhythm section or something and cases it and goes endos the bike into the following face of the next jump. Having a hard crash like that will cause that person to wait maybe a certain amount of time (longer than 3 seconds) before getting to re-spawn. While you're waiting, your rider will be writhing on the ground in pain or something lol.

For those who say "yeah but waiting isn't fun, it's a game" I agree, but this is the fine line that is agreeable in my opinion. Having repercussions is a good thing for a game like this where poor decisions will cost you big time. Skill alone isn't enough to win a motocross race, racers must be held responsible for their choices in the race. Meaning don't try lines you aren't comfortable doing, be patient when passing, don't assume someone will be nice and not ram into you, etc etc.

But that goes with my first post, in saying this would be great to focus on if and only if the bike isn't impossible to control for amateurs or like in MXS the bikes are hard to control in low speeds for even veterans because of stability issues with the settings.

moto28

Yes i agree. Hopefully it isnt so we can have awesome crashing and gameplay!

MotoRogers499

Ok so maybe not the health bar thing... but slower rider reactions when you have a hard crash is reasonable, right?

al167

March 02, 2014, 07:43:13 AM #41 Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 07:47:04 AM by al167
I love the idea of ragdoll crashes!!!
make the rigged jointed body lifeless, so legs, arms head go floppy and bounce around as if your unconscious and react to the terrain with spring/dampening characteristics.
start at 40 seconds in this vid of flatout. that's how it it should be ;D ;D
www.youtube.com/embed/nBrgo794Gyw

MotoRogers499

Quote from: al167 on March 02, 2014, 07:43:13 AM
I love the idea of ragdoll crashes!!!
make the rigged jointed body lifeless, so legs, arms head go floppy and bounce around as if your unconscious and react to the terrain with spring/dampening characteristics.
start at 40 seconds in this vid of flatout. that's how it it should be ;D ;D
www.youtube.com/embed/nBrgo794Gyw

xD yeah we can try getting our head to touch the back of our spine hahah

moto28

The thing about those ragdoll physics is that the Doll wants to continue sliding and is almost as if he just lets it all happen. In real life you flail around but with that you just lay out like a star fish and spin around.


MotoRogers499

Quote from: moto28 on March 04, 2014, 05:57:42 PM
The thing about those ragdoll physics is that the Doll wants to continue sliding and is almost as if he just lets it all happen. In real life you flail around but with that you just lay out like a star fish and spin around.

Its clear that majority here dont care about realism, so why not add some fun? :D