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Inverted steering in mid air?

Started by PinnedOutGoon, February 28, 2021, 04:29:20 PM

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PinnedOutGoon

Not sure if this is a bug or what.

When the front wheel has contact with the ground it steers l/r in accordance with the left joystick.

When air born or even doing the slightest wheelie this flips. So steering LEFT on the joystick causes the handlebars to turn RIGHT.

I'm constantly whipping/steering to where I dont wish to go, I'm trying to land with the SLIGHTEST bar turn and whoops I turned right instead of left. Even while trying to accelerate with a slight lean out of a corner the front wheel pops up, instantly leans/turns in the opposite direction and steers you off track.

Is this part of the 'normal' physics of this game? Is there any setting to change this?

[GH]Cody

Quote from: PinnedOutGoon on February 28, 2021, 04:29:20 PMIs this part of the 'normal' physics of this game?
Yes. Its how you lean and handle the bike. Dont focus on the direction the tire turns and it will start to make sense after a few hours in the game.

PinnedOutGoon

Appreciate the reply man, good to know its at least normal and not something I messed up with in the settings.

Although I don't quite understand why its like this/why anybody accepts this lol. It seems overly complicated for no apparent reason. I don't want to argue semantics on forum though

I have 20 hours+ into the game now, still does not make sense and feels straight up weird, I'm just going to move on lol, its kinda fun running laps/whips, ppl are cool online etc, but it feels and looks flinchy/unrealistic tbh, expected more out of a 'sim'  :-\ 

 

𝖙𝖋𝖈

March 02, 2021, 09:52:23 AM #3 Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 09:54:28 AM by 𝖙𝖋𝖈
I don't think it's that the sim is incorrect, I think the habdlebar steering angle in the air is irrelevant to what is actually happening physics wise. It also depends what lean you are using and referring to - bike or rider? Since remember there is no 'steering' input, control or setting.

This is a deep topic and back when this forum was busier I can think of a few names that would have had some serious input (forum search HornetMaX Counter Steering)..

If you bike lean left on the face of a jump and keep holding bike lean left in the air, the bike leans left in the air ad the bars turn right (by product).

If you bike lean left on the face of a jump and then instantly switch to bike lean right in the air, the rider will do everything he can to counter the whip and although the bars will turn the way you'd expect, the air behavior will not.

When you talk about catching air in whoops and ending up facing the wrong way, that is most likely down to rider lean not being managed. If you want to enter whoops slightly angled you will need matching rider lean, or balance over the bikes COG. This is the same in real life and something the sim doesn't fully do for you as you have the ability to control the rider lean yourself.

I'm not 100% sure on your setup both controller and sim settings, but given nobody else has the same specific problem could be local to you. Maybe you could make a vid of what you're seeing, then post your setup and controller settings.

Ruubs

In MXB you control the lean angle of the bike. So when you lean your controller's stick left, the bike will lean left due to the virtual rider turning the bars right (counter steering). The same happens in the air; when you lean left with your controller's stick, the virtual rider will counter steer to the right to initiate the lean. So in theory the handlebars turn the wrong way on the ground too.

teeds

You can change things to get direct control of the handlebars if you wish, but that will be a different game to control altogether and is way harder.
"Damn dirt bikers!" - Bubba

PinnedOutGoon

So what you guys are all basically saying is that the 'direct' leaning (Left thumbstick) and turning the bars are permanently linked to one input. Which is the left thumbstick. You cannot turn the bars without 'direct leaning'. Why does 'direct lean' affect the way the handlebars turn in the first place? I mean its possible to lean and not turn the bars irl lol..
 
Why not combine/link the 'direct lean' and 'rider lean' and leave the bars seperate? It feels overly complicated for the sake of having 2 separately controlled leans. When in reality you'll find yourself doing 'direct leaning' and 'rider leaning' in sync already?

When you ride you're supposed to try to stay on top of the bike at all times. (excluding whips/scrubs) If I lean the bike over, I stay perpendicular to the bike/bars. I very rarely find myself leaning the bike left while leaning myself to the right side of the bike, and when I do, it is not the fast/ideal line, and used when I've already made a mistake of some kind.

Again thanks for the replies, spent another couple hours trying to get used to it, but yeah feels like trash steering/leaning left and seeing the bars turn right. Ruins the flow of whips, bars look flinchy af as I spam l/r just to see where the fuck my bars are turning, cant stand this shit lol. I thought as a sim this game would have actual free mid air physics, sucks that even this doesn't.

I love dirt bikes though so I'm glad to at least support the game with a purchase. Hope yall have fun :-\

Ruubs

Your last reply didn't make much sense to me, but let me try to explain real life- and MXB physics a little better than I did before.

In Mx Bikes you control the lean angle of the bike. What really happens when you control the lean angle of the bike in Mx Bikes though, is that you indirectly control the virtual rider's arms. When you tell the bike to lean left the rider's left arm will push forward, which makes the handlebar steer to the right and make the bike lean over to the left. This is called counter steering and you do this in real life as well. In real life you can't lean over the bike without turning the handlebars in the opposite direction (unless you're riding slower than a bicycle, because even on a bicycle you steer right to lean left). However, you might not notice you do so (which a lot of people don't notice). When you lean your body to the right, your bike will lean to the right as well but that is because you automatically counter steer to the right due to the weight transfer. Counter steering is something we do automatically without realizing it.

This means that on the ground, the steering is flipped as well, just like it is in the air. It's just that you don't notice it on the ground because the bike still does what you expect it to do (lean over). In the air it isn't any different though. If you whip to the left, you can bring the bike back by counter steering to the left (controller the bike lean to the right).

You're saying, please correct me if I've misunderstood, that in real life you always stay perpendicular to the bike. You also say that when the bike leans left you rarely find yourself leaning right and when you do that it is not the fast/ideal line. In fact, in motocross the best technique is to lean your body the opposite way that the bike is leaning. The degree to which you lean the opposite way differs per corner/terrain though. In Mx Bikes you can actually control the rider's lean independent from the bike lean, just not his arms as that's what you use to turn the bars to lean the bike over. So if you want to stay perpendicular to the bike, you can simply choose to not lean your rider.


teeds

Basically what we have is compromise to make the game playable, and I think it works pretty well. There's no way with a controller of any sort we can ride like IRL and control all the aspects of a real rider and bike in real time.

"Damn dirt bikers!" - Bubba

PinnedOutGoon

Quote from: teeds on March 04, 2021, 02:31:31 PMBasically what we have is compromise to make the game playable, and I think it works pretty well. There's no way with a controller of any sort we can ride like IRL and control all the aspects of a real rider and bike in real time.



yeah just think I fundamentally disagree on the compromise.

Quote from: Ruubs on March 04, 2021, 02:24:38 PM

Yeah like I said in situations it happens but MAJORITY of your time spent riding will be spent perp with bike. This is where you have most control.

He looks awkard/shifting balance there aswell imo, I doubt he continued that angle throughout the turn.

PizzaChet

You see that in roadracing too. Differing styles. Some guys like MIck Doohan sit up like Dunge here. Others like Randy Mamola or Ben Spies hang way off the side.
Quote from: YodaIf no mistake have you made, yet losing you are ... a different game you should play.