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Realistic Risks.

Started by MotoRogers499, February 20, 2014, 12:31:36 AM

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MotoRogers499

In mx simulator it is NOT easy to crash. If you were doing the same things you did in real life as mx simulator, you would be dead. You legs would be were your arms should be. You all think its so easy to crash in mx simulator, but its NOT! We all fall because there is no fear. The chances you take in mx simulator are far greater than in real life. The risk of falling is higher. This is why people fall more in mx simulator, not because its "too easy to fall"

MotoRogers499

Quote from: gdubmx on February 20, 2014, 06:12:35 AM
You are absolutely right motoboss. Quite frankly the idea of a health bar and running to pick the bike up is stupid. I want a fun motocross simulator not one that takes me 4 years to master and depresses me. The crash system in gp bikes is fine. We do NOT need gimmick bs like this, you got 5 guys on the same bike that have a first turn crash, your all running around looking for your bike.. Just the very thought of this depresses me.further more no offence to anyone but the fact that people are suggesting this is just retarded IMO. Go play Mario and eat mushrooms for health or play GTA if u wanna fall off a bike and keep running about. And moto28 how can even make that assumption based on those videos?

You are saying two different things... In real life you dont just pick up riding instantly. 4 years is making good time to master it! A simulator is supposed to simulate real life. If it takes you 4 years to master riding, it should take 4 years in the simulator. This is just my opinion, and i stand strong beside it. If this game is "easy" then its not a simulator. Just how easy is motocross? Its not easy! And falling and dealing with the pain while you run back to your bike is part of it. If i want a fun game, i would goon around on mx vs atv or something. If this heads in that direction, I will DIE.

MX181

Quote from: MotoRogers499 on February 20, 2014, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: gdubmx on February 20, 2014, 06:12:35 AM
You are absolutely right motoboss. Quite frankly the idea of a health bar and running to pick the bike up is stupid. I want a fun motocross simulator not one that takes me 4 years to master and depresses me. The crash system in gp bikes is fine. We do NOT need gimmick bs like this, you got 5 guys on the same bike that have a first turn crash, your all running around looking for your bike.. Just the very thought of this depresses me.further more no offence to anyone but the fact that people are suggesting this is just retarded IMO. Go play Mario and eat mushrooms for health or play GTA if u wanna fall off a bike and keep running about. And moto28 how can even make that assumption based on those videos?

You are saying two different things... In real life you dont just pick up riding instantly. 4 years is making good time to master it! A simulator is supposed to simulate real life. If it takes you 4 years to master riding, it should take 4 years in the simulator. This is just my opinion, and i stand strong beside it. If this game is "easy" then its not a simulator. Just how easy is motocross? Its not easy! And falling and dealing with the pain while you run back to your bike is part of it. If i want a fun game, i would goon around on mx vs atv or something. If this heads in that direction, I will DIE.

Good point mb and moto but at the end of the day you still have to remember it is a video game

Live by the YOLO - UID #2

MotoRogers499

I enjoy mx simulator, when i ride normally. When i ride in my comfort zone, because i dont crash. But in racing, you are forced to push it. And when you have no fear (yes im going back there) then there is nothing stopping you from going all Alexis Leclair on the track. I want to eliminate this crazy no fear thing and actually be able to ride a 1:1 scale track without someone clearing 2 table tops with one jump. With a higher risk involved, i believe people will back off, ultimately making you CRASH LESS. Again, in mx simulator it is not easy to fall. People fall because they push themselves to falling.

DD

Quote from: MotoRogers499 on February 20, 2014, 09:56:19 PM
In mx simulator it is NOT easy to crash. If you were doing the same things you did in real life as mx simulator, you would be dead. You legs would be were your arms should be. You all think its so easy to crash in mx simulator, but its NOT! We all fall because there is no fear. The chances you take in mx simulator are far greater than in real life. The risk of falling is higher. This is why people fall more in mx simulator, not because its "too easy to fall"
I don't know about you, but even when I try to ride normal and not do anything I wouldn't do in real life, I still crash because of random physics errors and just straight bullshit.

uollie

I definitely hope this game will be as challenging as MX Simulator. But only in the sense of finding correct bike setup, technique, smart choices and etc.

MXS almost has it nailed except like someone said, there's a feeling of disorder with the physics sometimes. In MXS most of my wrecks actually come from low speeds because I'll get weird handlebar "headshake" trying to get going again, or I'll wheelie just enough to get the bike leaned over and the rider can't compensate for the weight transferred to the side because he's static dead-weight on the bike and goes wherever the bike's angle is going.

IF and IF those stability problems are non-existent in MX-Bikes then I'll most likely be pushing to see some repercussions from falling. If I can ride smoothly in my ability to do so, then I'll have no problem wrecking or running back to my bike in-game, because I'll know it was my fault for pushing too hard or not paying attention.

I think simulation is absolutely the correct direction to go. Most people would probably enjoy MXS more when they are first learning if it wasn't so daunting to get started. I don't know the difficulty of, but if there was a way to establish a "constant" stability setting for everyone (minus suspension setup) and maintain the ability to fully take advantage of the physics (enabling whips, scrubs, wheelies, etc) then that's what I'd like to see. It would eliminate "secret settings" and players could still find unique bike setups that feel personal.

With all of that said, having realistic risks when riding would be amazing to the race environment if the game isn't battling stability issues. There will of course still be idiot riders who land on you, or rocket into you, though. Which is why there shouldn't be a health bar. But worst crash = longer recovery sounds great to me. In MXS I feel I avoid downed riders pretty easily, because I like to boast that I'm a smart rider. When I get tangled up with someone its usually because they wrecked and their rider model is hanging onto the bike while flipping out of control and the physics is hard to guess where the wreck will bounce next.

Apologies for long post but, that is my addition to this thread :P

moto28

Quote from: uollie on February 22, 2014, 03:13:43 AM
I definitely hope this game will be as challenging as MX Simulator. But only in the sense of finding correct bike setup, technique, smart choices and etc.

MXS almost has it nailed except like someone said, there's a feeling of disorder with the physics sometimes. In MXS most of my wrecks actually come from low speeds because I'll get weird handlebar "headshake" trying to get going again, or I'll wheelie just enough to get the bike leaned over and the rider can't compensate for the weight transferred to the side because he's static dead-weight on the bike and goes wherever the bike's angle is going.

IF and IF those stability problems are non-existent in MX-Bikes then I'll most likely be pushing to see some repercussions from falling. If I can ride smoothly in my ability to do so, then I'll have no problem wrecking or running back to my bike in-game, because I'll know it was my fault for pushing too hard or not paying attention.

I think simulation is absolutely the correct direction to go. Most people would probably enjoy MXS more when they are first learning if it wasn't so daunting to get started. I don't know the difficulty of, but if there was a way to establish a "constant" stability setting for everyone (minus suspension setup) and maintain the ability to fully take advantage of the physics (enabling whips, scrubs, wheelies, etc) then that's what I'd like to see. It would eliminate "secret settings" and players could still find unique bike setups that feel personal.

With all of that said, having realistic risks when riding would be amazing to the race environment if the game isn't battling stability issues. There will of course still be idiot riders who land on you, or rocket into you, though. Which is why there shouldn't be a health bar. But worst crash = longer recovery sounds great to me. In MXS I feel I avoid downed riders pretty easily, because I like to boast that I'm a smart rider. When I get tangled up with someone its usually because they wrecked and their rider model is hanging onto the bike while flipping out of control and the physics is hard to guess where the wreck will bounce next.

Apologies for long post but, that is my addition to this thread :P
Probably the greatest post i ever read. You explained everything i thought perfectly in a manner i couldnt have dreamt of. i agree with you 100% :D

MotoRogers499

Quote from: moto28 on February 22, 2014, 03:19:45 AM
Quote from: uollie on February 22, 2014, 03:13:43 AM
I definitely hope this game will be as challenging as MX Simulator. But only in the sense of finding correct bike setup, technique, smart choices and etc.

MXS almost has it nailed except like someone said, there's a feeling of disorder with the physics sometimes. In MXS most of my wrecks actually come from low speeds because I'll get weird handlebar "headshake" trying to get going again, or I'll wheelie just enough to get the bike leaned over and the rider can't compensate for the weight transferred to the side because he's static dead-weight on the bike and goes wherever the bike's angle is going.

IF and IF those stability problems are non-existent in MX-Bikes then I'll most likely be pushing to see some repercussions from falling. If I can ride smoothly in my ability to do so, then I'll have no problem wrecking or running back to my bike in-game, because I'll know it was my fault for pushing too hard or not paying attention.

I think simulation is absolutely the correct direction to go. Most people would probably enjoy MXS more when they are first learning if it wasn't so daunting to get started. I don't know the difficulty of, but if there was a way to establish a "constant" stability setting for everyone (minus suspension setup) and maintain the ability to fully take advantage of the physics (enabling whips, scrubs, wheelies, etc) then that's what I'd like to see. It would eliminate "secret settings" and players could still find unique bike setups that feel personal.

With all of that said, having realistic risks when riding would be amazing to the race environment if the game isn't battling stability issues. There will of course still be idiot riders who land on you, or rocket into you, though. Which is why there shouldn't be a health bar. But worst crash = longer recovery sounds great to me. In MXS I feel I avoid downed riders pretty easily, because I like to boast that I'm a smart rider. When I get tangled up with someone its usually because they wrecked and their rider model is hanging onto the bike while flipping out of control and the physics is hard to guess where the wreck will bounce next.

Apologies for long post but, that is my addition to this thread :P
Probably the greatest post i ever read. You explained everything i thought perfectly in a manner i couldnt have dreamt of. i agree with you 100% :D

Yeah.. Chris does that...

𝖙𝖋𝖈

Unless the rider getting up and running to his bike is automated,  as in you have no control over him he just does it, maybe as a ghost. But it doesn't matter too much I'm more interested in a good running game for starters

robos

Or there could be a rider damage system, where if you crash too hard you can get injured and not be able to finish the race. but if you crash lightly there might be no consequences. That will also make players less likely to t-bone someone like in mxs.

MX181

Quote from: robos on February 22, 2014, 12:31:38 PM
Or there could be a rider damage system, where if you crash too hard you can get injured and not be able to finish the race. but if you crash lightly there might be no consequences. That will also make players less likely to t-bone someone like in mxs.

You will still get people "t-boning" people as it will make the person on the receiving and end up much worse then the idiot

Live by the YOLO - UID #2

robos

Quote from: MX181 on February 22, 2014, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: robos on February 22, 2014, 12:31:38 PM
Or there could be a rider damage system, where if you crash too hard you can get injured and not be able to finish the race. but if you crash lightly there might be no consequences. That will also make players less likely to t-bone someone like in mxs.

You will still get people "t-boning" people as it will make the person on the receiving and end up much worse then the idiot

But they still risk being injured for the race so they ruin the race for both. Who wants to t-bone a guy and have to wait till the next race?

DD

13-16 year old little ass holes do! ;D

uollie

Quote from: DD on February 22, 2014, 05:29:35 PM
13-16 year old little ass holes do! ;D

I was about to say that haha. Yeah, I really don't know about running back to your bike (at least literally manually running back to the bike) for those reasons. And the final reason why there shouldn't be health. Someone will come along and won't care if their race is ruined as long as they got to troll someone. In my earlier post saying I wouldn't mind running back, I was more so just emphasizing how important I thought stability was (low speed and high speed).

Keeping in mind that I still think harder crashes should warrant longer times, I'm thinking the GP bikes method will be the better solution by just re-spawning after a certain time. BUT, if there could be a way to make it so when a rider crashes, the rider actually separates from the bike and initiates his ragdoll or crash animation, and the bike is doing its own thing while wrecking... Have the rider spawn back on the bike where the bike last was. Just allow the rider ragdoll to be ghosted for other incoming riders or maybe you guys prefer to run over downed riders? lol

This way other riders can better judge how to avoid a tumbling bike in front of them from the physics not being altered by the "most dedicated man alive" who just won't let go of the bike :P Also, this way it won't surprise anyone to see a rider appear on the track from thin air, Instead they can look for a unmanned bike laying on it's side and avoid that since they will know someone will be re-spawning there soon.

𝖙𝖋𝖈

Or just have people respawn by the side of the track and ride back on. Its a penalty in itself and you can see people coming back on to avoid them