Bike engines - setting standards

[Asdrael]

Hi

Since I have been digging into engine models, files and dyno charts, I have a topic I'd like to bring to attention.

What should we do regarding custom bikes and their engine when it comes to racing and ensuring a fair setting?

Just talking about power, I have seen more than 25% difference only in raw hp (not even talking about the linearity or gearing ratios) in what are supposed to be exactly the same type of bikes between the modeling and the actual factory dyno chart. Quite obviously, if there is racing involved, people are going to pile up and use that one bike that gives a clear advantage. This in turns will be discouraging for modders to produce any new stuff, and people to try it out.

My suggestion is that, when a racing series is involved, we have bike classes "homogenized" on the server and re-released for this server type. Possibly, one or 2 people going over the range of bikes in the section to make sure they fare fairly. I'm not saying the same bikes, I'm saying that the maximum power and weight should at the very least be in the same ballpark, or if we have mixed class that they are realistic when against another (125 2s versus 250F for example).

Thoughts?

[Vortex_Damien]

I think that would be a great idea. i have been thinking of starting up a "race Factory" Style of a website/hosting service. at the moment with multiplayer how it is i have not actually started it. but setting up a rule that the bikes to be the same power and say a pack released before each race with updated bikes or when a new bike gets.. but that also puts a unrealistic part to it aswell as each bike is different from one another.

[StoneRider]

for all the bikes i'm working on, i just start from the msm dyno and adjust it to make it the more realistic possible. with the geom difference and those little tweak on the engn, the bikes are all really different but i think that they are all competitive for now. but the more i work on them, the more i'm thinking that fatty is may be right and the solution is to keep the original msm engine... the geom make a great difference itself. And i'm thinking that's may be enough, and that way we are sure that we'll don't have just one brand on all races.

[𝖙𝖋𝖈]

for all the bikes i'm working on, i just start from the msm dyno and adjust it to make it the more realistic possible. with the geom difference and those little tweak on the engn, the bikes are all really different but i think that they are all competitive for now. but the more i work on them, the more i'm thinking that fatty is may be right and the solution is to keep the original msm engine... the geom make a great difference itself. And i'm thinking that's may be enough, and that way we are sure that we'll don't have just one brand on all races.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer to this question..

I do know that if we had a full gate of the same bike and it was just down to tuning setup we'd see some very tight racing or at least it's down to the individual skill of the rider.. (I'm not saying in any way that any of the bikes we've gained recently have an advantage, most of that is joking around.. I can't keep the KXF's front wheel down half the time but that's my problem  )

[StoneRider]

yep. i think that all my releases are going to be with the original msm engine file and that's all. i just hope that it will be the same with the damien's rmz and other modded bikes to come..

[Asdrael]

The geometry making a difference is nice. Using the MSM dyno as a first try for a release makes sense, but I am still thinking that adding flavor by having one person modify the MSM for the bikes of the series according to factory specs (the official dynos are extremely easy to find) would be nice.

For the bikes for which the MSM doesn't exist (cough 125 2strokes cough) I'm willing to help "set a standard". I have the engine data mined already, and from what I have heard, its implementation on existing chassis give something extremely close to what you'd expect

[StoneRider]

senesis, can you send me your 125 engine file ? i have a 125 yz in progress and i would like to compare yours with mine. i would like to make it really competitive against all the 250's

but I am still thinking that adding flavor by having one person modify the MSM for the bikes of the series according to factory specs (the official dynos are extremely easy to find) would be nice.

easy to find but not easy to reproduce. it's not very accurate and don't feel like reality at all. and the difference between the 2016 stock sxf and rmz is huge. (rmz 34.30hp / sxf 40.10hp).
IRL riders have factory bikes made for themself. in game, everybody is going to ride with the best bike and that's all. that's why a will release all the bikes with the same msm original engine.

[Asdrael]

PM sent.

"My" 125 2 stroke engine (~37hp @11k rpm, I'd say 95% replica) makes me faster in hotlaps than with the 250F, but it's harder to ride. If you cruise, you'll be faster with a 250F. I would say a good 250F rider will be better on a 250F than on a 125 in this game, but then again, that what you'd expect IRL.