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Stiffer / slower compression / rebound dampening

Started by ryanmx25, December 09, 2019, 02:43:54 PM

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ryanmx25

December 09, 2019, 02:43:54 PM Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 03:18:33 PM by ryanmx25
It seems like the compression, and rebound damping is not able to be adjusted stiff enough even at 0 clicks. The bouncy-ness can be improved with the right settings but still feels like a pogo stick. On a real bike the clickers only move the damping curve up or down without actually changing the progressiveness of the damping curve, that's where a revalve comes into play. Is it the same in this game ? If so perhaps we need an adjustment to modify the damping curve, or if the clicks already simulate a 'revalve' we need more adjustment range.
Example
http://www.kreftmoto.com/revalve-control
Imo this is the main bug with the playability of this game, and would help a lot of other common complaints as well. For novice motocross the current adjustments seem close but still a little soft/fast, advanced motocross tracks it becomes farther away from ideal, and for Supercross it's not even close. Supercross suspension settings are vastly different from standard setting off the show room floor, it seems as we don't have that adjustment capability.

Ruubs

We've been talking about this for the past week in the Mx Bikes Discord channel. Mostly Asdrael and Shack are working on getting better suspensions values.
Feel free to join the discord and help them out :)
MX Bikes Discord Server: https://discord.gg/8wwwNDn

ryanmx25

December 10, 2019, 02:09:46 PM #2 Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 02:32:41 PM by ryanmx25
Quote from: Ruubs on December 10, 2019, 12:11:10 PMWe've been talking about this for the past week in the Mx Bikes Discord channel. Mostly Asdrael and Shack are working on getting better suspensions values.
Feel free to join the discord and help them out :)
MX Bikes Discord Server: https://discord.gg/8wwwNDn
If the current clicker settings do in fact simulate actual clicker adjustments, I think it's just a matter of having a separate compression / rebound valving adjustment. Clicks are just meant to be a fine tune and are not capable of making drastic changes to the damping curve, as is necessary for the wide variety of tracks and disciplines. Hopefully piboso chimes in :) Just starting getting back into it since I first played a few years ago, it's sure came a long ways ! If only we could get some data directly from KYB/showa/WP but I'm afraid it won't be that easy 😆 Perhaps try reaching out to a big tuning company like race tech, or factory connection who specialized in revalving and knows the differences between motocross and Supercross setups. They have suspension dynos that could provide some nice solid data, the tough part would be getting access to that data as id imagine they're quit protective of it and don't want their R&D getting around to people it shouldn't.

Ruubs

Shack has quite a bit of knowledge and data and is doing a fantastic job getting the suspension to work properly.
I do expect shack's suspension values to be included in the OEM pack at some point, but I don't quote me on that.

ryanmx25

Quote from: Ruubs on December 10, 2019, 02:37:51 PMShack has quite a bit of knowledge and data and is doing a fantastic job getting the suspension to work properly.
I do expect shack's suspension values to be included in the OEM pack at some point, but I don't quote me on that.
Do you mean he/we are able to adjust the values outside of what's adjustable in the garage ?

Asdrael

Yea. But there are three issues currently.

1. The shape of the dampening curve for both compression and rebound

2. The actual values.

3. The clicker range.

3 is easy to address. 1 can be done BUT it's speciality specific - enduro and Supercross basically have opposite curves. 2 is... Well, hard to get real values, speciality specific and must be eyeballed.
Donate to me -> feed my coffee addiction -> get more mods!
OEM bikes pack
MXBikes Discord

ryanmx25

December 10, 2019, 08:31:19 PM #6 Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 08:33:14 PM by ryanmx25
Quote from: ryanmx25 on December 10, 2019, 08:04:33 PM
Quote from: Asdrael on December 10, 2019, 07:03:12 PMYea. But there are three issues currently.

1. The shape of the dampening curve for both compression and rebound

2. The actual values.

3. The clicker range.

3 is easy to address. 1 can be done BUT it's speciality specific - enduro and Supercross basically have opposite curves. 2 is... Well, hard to get real values, speciality specific and must be eyeballed.
Is there instructions on how to change the damping curve? Or is that something that needs to be done say when creating bike physics ?Yes I'm aware damping is specific to riding type. I figure with an in game adjustment range you could come up with an almost ideal setting just from testing, trial and error. Without an easy in game adjustment it basically defeats the purpose of having different types of tracks aside from basic motocross. This would be the best method of approach imo, real life data would be helpful but not an end all be all. Yeah this is a simulator but not everything transfers over  perfectly.

ryanmx25

So I've mostly only been playing with the Oem bikes after picking this game back up but last night I only played with the piboso 250xf and 350xf. It's apparent the suspension of the stock bikes is much more controlled, and has overall more dampening feel, rather than just feeling like straight spring. It works quite well even on Supercross. Nothing but props to you asdrael as the job seems quite extensive and definitely no walk in the park, just wanting to provide some constructive feedback!:) It seems as though you guys are already aware of the isssues however

Asdrael

Interestingly enough, the values for the dampening values are exactly the same between OEM and stock. I know there are, depending on the bikes, more or less important geometry and/or spring rate changes but nothing that could justify a large difference.

So, yeah :/
Donate to me -> feed my coffee addiction -> get more mods!
OEM bikes pack
MXBikes Discord

ryanmx25

December 12, 2019, 10:19:49 PM #9 Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 11:40:28 PM by ryanmx25
Hmm that is strange, but I was thinking that may be the case as chassis setup is the most crucial factor to Mx. The forks should carry over pretty nicely for the most part, but a shock can be more tricky as different linkage ratios require different spring rate (which is available) and different damping characteristic. The endless tune-ability is nice but you gotta wonder if it's just too much to fit all the puzzle pieces together.