2016 Kawasaki 250/450/450sm V2.1

[𝖙𝖋𝖈]

It's more like buying a hand drawn sketch from someone, photocopying it and giving the photocopies out for free.

The facts are that there is no legal ground, just moral.

[HornetMaX]

It's just a misunderstanding on what has been sold: Stone though he had bought a 3d model, Jay though he had sold the right to use the 3d model in MXS (and only in MXS).

Everything else is poor manners in discussing the issue, from both sides.

Guys (Jay, Stone), find an agreement and let's settle this.

After that we can lock this topic and make it sticky in this forum, just to remind that paid-for modded content is always going to be a PITA.

Anyways, those who think it's a right to distribute another creators content just because they purchased it is sadly mistaken and has no knowledge as far as a creators rights to their content. A creator can release content free and that STILL doesn't mean you can do as you please with it if it's filed under the correct creative commons license.

If you have bought the model and put in a different game for yourself, by all means no one says you can't, but it gets really muddy when you then take the model you purchased and then freely distribute that model in a different game. That is a form of pirating. If I buy photoshop and develop a crack and then upload it to piratebay for all, that is a legal offense and is wrong.

"I paid x amount for y digital product I'm gonna do what I want" is a terrible outlook. Like I said, you can do what you want with your purchase within bounds legally and morally, if you want to take your purchase and but into a different game for yourself than by all means go ahead. Why do you think Piboso and JLV (mxs dev.) do not want imported content from games such as MVA and MXGP being released publicly? Because it's legal vulnerability. Point, just because you bought the game does not give you the right to distribute.

Plain and simple, if you want to avoid all this and the mxs community mentality, it's best someone around here starts to make 100% new content. It's the only way to avoid problems, good luck.

Although I will commend a majority of you, I can see the discussions around here are a bit more mature and controlled then MXS. That is nice.

I'm kind of curios to know if Jay asked the bike makers (Kawa, KTM) permission to model their bikes and sell the result for profit. Because you see, here too there's a grey area concerning property of content ...

[pacopastor34]

I'm kind of curios to know if Jay asked the bike makers (Kawa, KTM) permission to model their bikes and sell the result for profit. Because you see, here too there's a grey area concerning property of content ...

+1

[PizzaChet]

Good luck getting them to admit if it's illegal. Of course there'd be a double standard. It's a line that has been crossed by the modders that basically was an invisible moral line about charging for modded content. Previous creators spent countless hours above and beyond the "100's of hours" spent making content regardless of it's perceived quality for free. I think this is indicative of the new attitudes in gaming. Every kid is a "pro".

[m121c]

You are right, it is a grey area. You are opening a can of worms full of confusing issues and technicalities. It's not as black and white as in "He is selling a KTM model replica that's illegal". There are many ways around the controversial issue, and for the most part that is why companies barely even bother with it. As well as the legal hassle, for a market so small it's not worth their time. We could honestly debate for days on whether or not it's legal but it will not get anywhere, it will still be the same can of worms.

There is no grey area with illegally distributing digital content though, you are either guilty or you are not. No way amount of tricks or wording can be done there.

It's just a misunderstanding on what has been sold: Stone though he had bought a 3d model, Jay though he had sold the right to use the 3d model in MXS (and only in MXS).

You couldn't be more wrong with that. It's not that he thought he was selling the right to MXS only model. The problem here is Stone bought the bike and imported into MXB not for HIS sake but to share with the MXB community. He is distributing it to all of you, a paid model, that none of you bought. In my eyes that is the issue.

I get Jay's personal feelings on wishing the model was not in a game engine it was not intended for, but he knows just as well as I do you have no control over that.

[HornetMaX]

You are right, it is a grey area. You are opening a can of worms full of confusing issues and technicalities. It's not as black and white as in "He is selling a KTM model replica that's illegal". There are many ways around the controversial issue, and for the most part that is why companies barely even bother with it. As well as the legal hassle, for a market so small it's not worth their time. We could honestly debate for days on whether or not it's legal but it will not get anywhere, it will still be the same can of worms.

There is no grey area with illegally distributing digital content though, you are either guilty or you are not. No way amount of tricks or wording can be done there.

I'm sorry, but it's a bit of a double standard, as expected.
A creator (like Jay) can skip royalties (to KTM) because KTM won't bother while Stone should do as told because it's morally right to do so ?
Err ... I hope you can see the problem there.

It's just a misunderstanding on what has been sold: Stone though he had bought a 3d model, Jay though he had sold the right to use the 3d model in MXS (and only in MXS).

You couldn't be more wrong with that. It's not that he thought he was selling the right to MXS only model. The problem here is Stone bought the bike and imported into MXB not for HIS sake but to share with the MXB community. He is distributing it to all of you, a paid model, that none of you bought. In my eyes that is the issue.

I don't think Jay put it this way: he mostly seemed concerned that his model poorly imported in MXB would tarnish his reputation. Which by the way is a bit of a weak argument as: if it were the only issue, we could just call the model "Stone's" model without mentioning Jay, so Jay's rep would be unaffected.

But let's say you're right, the issue is what you said above: do you mean Jay sold for 70$ (or whatever) a model to a guy with the restriction the guy could only use it privately ?! 
So if the MXB community wanted to buy the model from Jay, the price would be what ? 70$ times what ? x10 ? x100 ? x1000 ?
Because if that's the case, I don't think I can swallow Jay's statement "I make stuff for my friends on MXS and collect some coin as I go".

70$ is already almost more than MXS and MXB together ! Piboso and JLV (I'm not sure about him but I'm sure about Piboso) do not touch a cent of that money: how fair is that ?

Now that I think about that, if I were Piboso or JLV I'd force modders charging for content to pay royalties to MXB/MXS.
At least some money will somehow go back to the community and modders that are only driven by profit (not implying it's Jay's case) will steer clear.

But my position stays: if Jay wants his bike not to be in MXB, then let be it. His model, his call.
If he's not wiling to give Stone his money back, then let be it. Nobody will ever go legal about that.

But I'm sure that with the limited number of MXB users we have at the moment we'll have no issues at all in finding a few chaps (me first) that can chip 5-10$ in to cover Stone's 70$ loss, just to make him forget this whole story.

[BadStar]

Looks to be lessons learned for everyone..

I'll enjoy the new RMZ until I can think clearly again.

Is it possible to destroy this thread, I would be honored to hit the self destruct button! 🤔

Oh and btw, I'll throw a few bucks here and there at stone for sure, just did for vortex..wish everyone would put up donate tabs anyway. Just let us know stone, as soon as we don't use Jay's model we can fund the StoneRiderFund2016

[HornetMaX]

We should keep the thread, as a lesson.

[pacopastor34]

I didn't learn any lesson. We didn't steal any bike from nobodys backyard. We are a bunch of people spending our time playing that game and trying to having fun. I'm about 30 years old, and I don't care about a person crying because 30 people are playing with his toybike. It is not an adult discussing, no legal issues, no copyright infringement.

What's wrong with you guys? In Gpbikes community, Nobody cares about that things. People only care about having fun and races. A guy made a MotoGP 2016 Mod and who ask about the models? Nobody. The people just ride them and gives feedback about the work in order to improve it and keep on enjoying it.

EDIT:

[HornetMaX]

I didn't learn any lesson.

The lesson is: if you're going to buy a 3d model or whatever from its creator, before purchasing try to be absolutely sure that the intended usage of the model is OK to the creator.
If there's any doubt, don't assume anything and don't buy until all is crystal clear.

In GPB nobody has ever paid for content (content being mods or raw 3d models or whatever). So yeah, hard to have a similar problem

[pacopastor34]

I referred to take any bike from another place(Game, purchase...)It's only a modder problem. It doesn't affect piboso. At least if you don't say where you took the models. I don't give a damn Jay. If I were the "buyer" the bike would be as downloadable right now.

[rc4187]

Well... I do have a generic KX-looking (not replica) model that I made. I just never released it because everyone had a 2016 replica and I figured there was no point. But if you all would like me to release it... it is my own making and there would be no issues of any sort using it. Like I said... I just figured everyone would rather have a replica. I know GDub enjoys using it.

[pacopastor34]

I was wondering when you planned to release it...for me, why not? I would enjoy make a couple skins for it.

[rc4187]

Yeah... I just ended up deciding not to. But if we need to fill a bike void...

[rc4187]

keeping it out is totally fine by me